BETA VALUES

[steptoe]

Can anyone advise values of Betas nowadays as i want to buy another to add to my HPEVX.


Can we value perhaps based on condition and real experiences of cars sold recently?


PROPOSED CODING FOR CONDITION

C1-MINT CONCOURSE
C2-GOOD USEAEABLE
C3-AVERAGE USEABLE NEEDS TLC
C4-BELOW AVERAGE, TATTY BUT MOT AND TAX USEABLE ROLLING RESTO
C5-OFF ROAD FOR SOME TIME NEEDS MINOR RECOMISSIONING
C6-OFF ROAD FOR 5YEARS PLUS NEEDS MAJOR WORK FOR MOT
C7-BASKET CASE-SPARES ONLY (DRAGGED FROM SWAMP / SAT IN FIELD FOR 20 YEARS)




COUPE

HPE

COUPE VX

HPEVX


SPIDER

[MattNoVAT]

Thats a tough ask Steptoe, personally I judge each car individually when they are in C1, C2 or C3.

Below that anywhere between free and £600 - but again even that is fraught with complexities, like are the issues mechanical, bodywork or interior.  Oh and is it complete? As what looks a minor part missing may turn out to be impossible to find and if you do it would be expensive.

You only have to look at what has happened in Australia as far as parts goes to see that what can happen, as someone who is mid restoration I know how easy it is for budgets to spiral on parts. (And many other aspects of a restoration!!)

Anyone connected with the motor trade knows that what a car is advertised for and what it actually sells at two different numbers.

[rossocorsa]

just my opinion but I think realistic maximum for a very good volumex coupé is £5.5 to £6k, HPE generally seem to make quite a bit less, Spiders maybe up to £4 to £4.5, late carb/injection coupé up to about £3.5 earlier cars impossible to say as they are very desirable but mega rare, berlinas/trevis impossible to value and are the ultimate whatever someone will pay on the day car. Most cars on sale are rougher than they look in the ads, often nothing like their glowing description and there are very few truly nice original cars in the UK. It's not possible to break prices down based on your list of condition there isn't enough market information, I don't think there is a single Beta in the UK to so called concours standard at least not as would be defined by the typical British car fraternity but there are some extremely nice ones    

[Hawk]

I think your figures ^^^^ are a touch optimistic / high. 

I bought my Spider last November (after a lot of looking) and bought a pretty good one for less than £1500.  That was with full tax and ticket and 3 boot loads of spares. 

In reality, it needs very little to make it very very good (totally agree with the concours comments above).  A new hood (one is hopefully on its way as we speak) and some trimming for the seats is all.  Cosmetically, all it wants for is a couple of bits of touching up on te paint work. 

The hood has cost me £200 (probably plus another £100 when I finally admit I can't fit it!) and I'd be fairly confident the interior trimming and paintwork could be done for £800 so that a grand give or take.

That would IMHO take my car to very very good for around £2500 and I really don't see me being able to sell for more than £3k.

[rossocorsa]

I think you bought your car cheap and at the right time of year spring will always be more expensive in the classic/convertible markets, price wise I was talking about really near perfect cars the volumex coupe price is based upon a real sale price on ebay the others on a mix of those I've seen. I can agree that the spider price is high but none of the cars sold seem to have been in the truly very good category (bear in mind I am very picky and a bit of a Beta anorak) thing is the gap between merely good and really very good/near perfect is quite big and it is a very difficult gap to close on a Beta as the detail parts are a nightmare to source

[steptoe]

Would you say it is a buyers or a sellers market?

There is a VXCPE on thebay now - shall we see what it goes for - i dont think thebay is a good guide for valuing a car as ive
sold things on there sometimes no bids sometimes half of what i wanted and sometimes more than i expected - right person bidding at right time, situation etc - its a fickle market in general but for example for other classics i have more knowledge on and have followed and logged values over the last 15 years i can say what C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 ETC ARE worth in todays climate. . . .

[MattNoVAT]

I'd never sell a car on Ebay as most that use it want a Rolls Royce for £50 !!

[rossocorsa]

Would you say it is a buyers or a sellers market?

There is a VXCPE on thebay now - shall we see what it goes for - i dont think thebay is a good guide for valuing a car as ive
sold things on there sometimes no bids sometimes half of what i wanted and sometimes more than i expected - right person bidding at right time, situation etc - its a fickle market in general but for example for other classics i have more knowledge on and have followed and logged values over the last 15 years i can say what C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 ETC ARE worth in todays climate. . . .

I don't know what category you'd put that vx coupe in, at least not without seeing it in the metal. Superficially it looks reasonable but reading between the lines I reckon there is a lot of work needed my view would be £1000-ish but at that price it is worth more in parts than complete. I know what you are saying about ebay but I am basing the 'very good condition' price on a car that is well known and was known to have sold, I have seen a similar asking price on ebay more recently for a car which I have been told was in very inferior condition and unsurprisingly it didn't sell also a low mileage VX coupe sold at a (non-ebay) auction for £3000-ish late last year but again condition was apparently not so good. As regards cars of unknown condition I agree ebay is not a lot of use. I have to say that a lot of this focus on money and worth in the classic car movement  isn't such a positive thing although it is nice to have some sort of value to your  investment that's not why I have a Beta in bits in the garage at the moment 

[rossocorsa]

Would you say it is a buyers or a sellers market?

Probably a buyers market but having said that most of the cheaper Betas on eBay probably aren't the bargain they seem as condition tends to be very ropey, and the truly very good cars are rare in the extreme   

[steptoe]

i dont think anyone on here owns a beta for profit / investment however i do feel that money invested in the right car is a better investment than what you would earn as interest if the money was left in the bank. And more fun.
I have a lot of money invested in cars that i own as a passion however i want to know their true current market value as matter of interest, i also want to by another HPEVX and would like to ask other likeminded people here their views.
There is no other motive for this conversation.

[rossocorsa]

I think hpe vx prices are around £3k for a decent one that is on the road and needs only minor fettling, I haven't seen a really perfect one for years so not sure on that score but despite the fact that they are really excellent all round  performers they attract less attention than coupés so tend to be slightly cheaper

[Neil-yaj396]

I think Paul Greenway sold his VX HPE on here before Christmas and got circa £3k. That was as good a car as I've seen with just a few minor marks. As for concours Betas I'd say the two that placed in the LMC competition this summer probably are fairly unique (red 2 litre carb and red VX Coupes). The former is the only truly concours Beta that I know in the UK though there are several very nice examples no doubt owned by Forum members.
Prices are so hard to gauge because so few very good examples come up for sale.

[rossocorsa]

concours is always a difficult question the VX you are talking about isn't concours in the typical classic car fraternity definition but it is very original and in excellent order probably from a Lancia enthusiasts perspective that is actually better than concours ?

[Neil-yaj396]

RC - yes I agree. As said the red 2L carb (xreg?) is the only 'concours' Beta I've seen, though Andy Collins' saloons probably deserve mention!

[rossocorsa]

I think Paul Greenway sold his VX HPE on here before Christmas and got circa £3k.

I understand that car was sold to Chas 'vxdemayo' on here nice though it was if you read his posts I believe Chas has put quite a lot of effort and £££ into getting it spot on  so where that leaves the value of a really good HPE I don't know but it would be more than £3k. I suspect that car is probably the best HPE VX in the UK now

[Neil-yaj396]

Just got Viva Lancia. There is a VX Coupe for sale for it's third month now. No takers at £4k.

[rossocorsa]

Just got Viva Lancia. There is a VX Coupe for sale for it's third month now. No takers at £4k.

It's an injection not a VX difficult to comment without physically seeing the car but my cynical nature says it's probably in need of work it  has received restoration work in the past but really it would need to be viewed to know how well it has been done. There was a VX on ebay at, I think, £5995 (??) reduced from a staggering £6995  described as near perfect but I know someone who has seen it and it was actually quite rough. I don't think it has sold (hardly surprising)

[Neil-yaj396]

The mega rare (?) series 1 Spider on ebay is currently bidding at £1250 (reserve not met) with a BIN price of £1800.

As for the VL car I suppose £4k is real top dollar for an ie! I was going to have a look myself but as RC says the work would done/the car would really have to be spot on to command the asking price, hence no takers perhaps?

[rossocorsa]

The mega rare (?) series 1 Spider on ebay is currently bidding at £1250 (reserve not met) with a BIN price of £1800.

it really is very rare from memory I only know of one other in the UK, rarity doesn't always improve value of course and again it is down to condition which can't really be assessed in an ebay advert, needs a fair bit of work though and for a start  the rather incomplete respray is very off putting and the gold wheels, having said that if I had space and money of which I have neither I'd be quite interested in that car it is situated a long way from me though. It's a car for a passionate Beta nut to restore as there's certainly more money needed to be poured into it than it'll ever be worth when finished.

Anyway on another subject shouldn't Jack have gone to specsavers?

[VXdeMayo]

Dear all,
well chaps, I go away on holiday for 5 minutes and our car is mentioned in dispatches!
I will post some pics and let you know what I have done to improve Paul Greenways VX HPE in the next few days. It will be interesting to know what the forum thinks value wise of our "Lulu", but along with many others we're not in it for the money. I purchased Paul's car for £3250, eyes wide open and I judged it to be fair value, and it was a "very good car for it's age". (There's the caveat though). ("Very good" verses "very good for it's age", a whole world of difference)!
However there was a lots of little trim and detail niggles to attend to, not withstanding the small issue of rust removal of the scuttle and tailgate!
I suppose we viewed it in the light of "buy the best car you can afford" then it will require a lot less expensive chasing around and the value you CAN put into it will be fun and less arduous than some of you heroes out there!

It is a shame that the Beta is not held in higher esteem out in the wider world, as values would surely be more than they are at present.
However if any of you were to want a really good example (near concours), that gave you the quality car performance it does, coupled with the Lancia pedigree, then I think even a "mere HPE" should be worth circa £5.000.
I have to admit that I have always prefered the HPE style wise to the coupe anyway, but that is a personal thing. I think when you look at what you have to pay for some very dubious marques and WHAT YOU ACTUALLY GET technically and stylistically, then the Beta range is very undervalued.
Will post some pics this week,
Best,
Chas and Anne,
(VXdeMAYO).