Lancia Beta Forum

We (Lancia Motor Club of Ireland) had our annual Xmas lunch yesterday and being one of the rare occasions when I need to drive my spyder in the dark, I'd forgotten jush how appalling the car's lights actually are.
The fifty mile drive home on unlit country roads took almost 90 minutes of squinting and guesswork, especially when meeting cars.
More than once, I forgot to dip my lights when meeting oncoming cars and not one of them felt the need to remind me by flashing their high beams at me.
The fact that my reflectors are good, the bulbs are new and the wiring is uprated, combined with the lights being well focussed still didn't produce even reasonable light has prompted me to write this in the hope taat some creative soul has experienced similar problems and can offer a solution.
The thing is, I like the style of the one-piece lamps on my car and don't want to "upgrade" to the quad set-up from the facelift model.
I'm thinking along the lines of getting someone to make clear polycarbonate replicas of the lenses and mount Cibie or similar lamp units behind them but I don't know if it's possible to get such items made.
I can't use the existing glass as it's patterned to direct the beams already and I'm sure this is part of the issue.
I currently have a pair of small cibie foglamps mounted below the bumper to suppliment the dipped beam, but for some reason, they didn't work yeaserday. Not difficult to rectify but really, with decent dip and main beam units, I shouldn't need them.
As usual, all ideas welcome. (I'm on the verge of fitting a pair of Oscars for main beams)

How about BMW e30 lights?
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=176.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=176.0)


OR

If you've uprated the wiring how about fitting bigger or better bulbs? Xenon's are supposed to give more light, or failing that how about 80/100's?

I ordered some std wattage Xenon's for one of my motors from ebay a while ago and was amazed with the difference they made ... Shortly afterwards I checked the bulbs and they were in fact 80/100 Xenons .. oops.
To be honest though, these are not legal in the UK.

Legality isn't an issue but since I still will have the same reflectors and lenses directing the light, the pattern and range will be unaffected.
My '94 325 BMW has the same H1 55w bulbs as my spyder but you couldn't compare the light output so it's really a matter of actual design rather than brighter bulbs although the dipped beam would be improved, I'm sure.

I think the only option would be a decent quality proper hid conversation kit not so called 'xenon ' normal bulbs,  in the UK these aren't strictly legal and are now part of the mot but most chavs get away with them.

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I am with Alan on going with an HID conversion. The Monte owners bought kits from HID City which have been very successful as they use a conventional bulb pattern and the low power use means no threat to your wiring and switches.

Eric 

Sounds like a workable option.
My car is exempt from the irish version of the MOT so no worries there.
Thanks for the advice folks.

Interesting thread  - I've got the single peice lamps on mine and I have to say they're pretty good. Mine are new Carellos.

When I first got the car it had the correct lenses but the reflectors behind them had lenses on too which made the beam patterns all over the place - clearly someone had bodged them. Later I had one Carello and one Siem from an HPE. The Siem was noticably weaker.

The biggest difference to the lights was when I wired them up via the alternator and a fused relay rather than through the steering column switches - if you haven't done this it might be worth a go.

I must look more closely and see which lamps I have although I suspect they are Siem.
The original owner did a few "get-by" cobble jobs on the electrics, most of which I've found and rectified/upgraded, but I must check if there are lenses behind the glass as the beam patterns are sensless in their direction.
I suspect new lamps will be a costly and scarce option but so is writing off the car in the dark!
I am looking for a way to mount a set of projector style dip units off a BMW with HID bulbs and Cibie main beam units with 100w H1 bulbs, but it's all speculative at the moment.
I must admit I do enjoy the challange though and getting a satisfactory result will be worthwhile

Hi

I think my first port of call would be to measure the actual voltage drop across the bulb and supply voltage. Then check the lens makup to ensure they are correct. After that make a decision. I think the relay idea is pretty sound as cuts down on current through the hand controls etc as well and is really how it should have been done with higher current items on the car.

If you are finding that the voltage drop across the bulb is low, but supply voltage to the bulb is 12V, then you should check your earths. Again for the higher current items, may be worth running a separate earth even as a temporary test.

Peter

You're right about the new lamps being scarce! - it took me ages to cobble together the bits. Also it's worth checking you have the right dip pattern - there are far more continental ones about than UK ones.

I'd be interested to see how you get on with alternatives - I saw your wanted post and I may have enough bits and bobs to sort you out  - I'll check Tommorrow.

It's probably heresy to the 'originalists', but I used Cibie Z-beams on mine, of the same size (5.75" I believe) as the originals with all units having dip and main beam. While I was at it I got an auto electrician to plumb in one of the unused switches on the dashboard so that I could switch the inner set of lights off if required. The column mounted dip/main beam operates on all four lights via a relay and the difference in visibility is phenomenal. I went for the Cibie units as I was aware of the huge improvement they made to my RD350LC motorbike's lights in the early 80s when replacing the rubbish standard item.

On its first night-time tryout I was flashed by a lorry driver on the other side of a deserted motorway when using all 4 lights on main beam, so I figured I must have done something right. Now it's in France I've simply swapped the RHD units I have for some Oscar/Valeo LHD equivalents. The Cibie units cost around £30 each when I did the mod, but now it looks like they will set you back around £55 a pop:

http://www.busters-accessories.co.uk/productinfo/MAP525333/Spares/Headlights/Cibie (http://www.busters-accessories.co.uk/productinfo/MAP525333/Spares/Headlights/Cibie)

Although these people seem to offer them a fair bit cheaper, and do main beam only/main and dip/main, dip and side light options:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-CIBIE-5-3-4-146mm-ROUND-HEADLAMP-HEADLIGHT-UNIT-MAIN-DIP-WITH-SIDELIGHT-/310360892088?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4842f362b8#ht_1897wt_1161 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-CIBIE-5-3-4-146mm-ROUND-HEADLAMP-HEADLIGHT-UNIT-MAIN-DIP-WITH-SIDELIGHT-/310360892088?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4842f362b8#ht_1897wt_1161)

Alternatively, engage in a bidding war for these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Escort-RS-2000-Headlights-Full-Set-Valeo-Cibie-2-Inner-2-Outer-BRAND-NEW-/130827101285?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e75e72465#ht_177wt_1399 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Escort-RS-2000-Headlights-Full-Set-Valeo-Cibie-2-Inner-2-Outer-BRAND-NEW-/130827101285?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e75e72465#ht_177wt_1399)

I don't think projector lamps will work the beam pattern is set  inside the projector if you put these behind the original lens the lens will further disperse the light

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My tuppenceworth - As I do on my X1/9s, I would recommend fitting relays in the dipped and main beam circuits, with modern thinwall cable. It will take all the stress off the column switch, which is a good thing as the switches are getting rarer by the day. It can be taken further by putting relays in all the circuits where oem switches carry the full current, such as wipers and rear demister. The oem switches are fast becoming unobtanium; relays are far cheaper to replace!

I have fitted HID conversions in a couple of older cars and as long as you take care to set the beams as low as possible to avoid annoying other drivers, they are a huge improvement. In fact on roads I know well I don't even bother with main beams, the dips are that good. My old Audi A6 has projectors, but my other cars use the dip/main "bi-xenon" H4 conversion HIDS with traditional reflectors and patterned glass, both types work well. For the single lens Beta I would suggest making up replica lenses in polycarbonate, it wouldn't be too hard to do with flat sheet and some solvent glue. Then you can fit new 5" bowl or even projector headlight units behind.

Cheers R

That's very much along the lines I'm thinking alright.
I just took a proper look at my lights and on the nearside, I have a Siem unit with bad reflectors, although I had myself convinced they were good, the bulb holders are loose where they attach to the reflectors and most of the plastic clips where the adjusting screws attach to the bowls are broken/missing.
The offside lamp is a Carello with good reflectors and tight bulb holders, but again the adjuster mounts are broken or missing so I didn't really stand much of a chance of getting decent light.
I presume I have to gouge all the sealant out to remove the glass from the plastic body in order to remove the reflector bowls?
I should probably wait till I have spare glass available as I suspect these things can go horribly wrong.
I removed the offside headlamp and it was surprisingly easy to do as the mounting bolts were in good shape and the nuts came off without any trouble.
I've left the nearside unit in place as there are air horns and stuff in the way and frankly, I'm just too damn lazy to bother this afternoon!

This is what worked for me
Bring the unit inside and warm it up thoroughly. With a knife trim off the exess sealant then make two cuts down into the sealant one right next to the glass and the other next to the body of the lamp. Then work a slim flatblade screwdriver along the joint to dig out most of the sealant. Then cut down again between the glass and the lamp body to break the seal. Using a couple of levers gently try to lift the glass out at one end.

I've done four this way and haven't broken a lens yet but it's a nervous job. Siem lenses are much easier to get hold of so I'd suggest trying that one first. 

Thanks.
That's New Year's Day entertainment sorted anyway.
Next is winning that set of RS 2000 Cibie headlamps on e-bay!