Camber setting?

[lanciamad]

Guys, i'm getting my tracking done friday while it's there they are also going to adjust the camber to what I decide, but I havn't decided! What do you suggest?
I am pretty sure I am going to stick with the original tracking figures for toe front and rear, but unsure what to go with for camber? Front and rear suspension can be adjusted for this and i'm not going to be doing more than 3k miles a year it's purely for car shows, track days and the occasional weekend so tyre wear isn't a massive problem but I don't want to shred the tyres in a few hundred miles either.

[thecolonel]

Have it set to standard spec. then try the car out a few times,
with modified suspension you need to create your own baseline
before finding settings that suit you.

Geoff

[lanciamad]

This is the car set to standard with spax inserts fully hard, betaboyz lowering springs, betaboyz poly bushes and hard side walled track tyres:

That's tower corner at castle combe by the way, 5,500rpm in 3rd about 60-65mph i think too busy looking at the rev counter to notice speeds normally. As you can see, the angle of the nearside front is why i'm modifying the camber. I'm going with the original figures for the back toe and camber but the fronts will be running -2 degrees camber so that wheel should be flat going round that corner with the original toe figure for the front.
It was suppose to all be done today, but they've done the back and couldn't do the fronts as the track rods were solid "apparently" so it's going back in monday to be stripped, cleaned, greased and tracking set.
In theory, the more it rolls the more it'll grip.

[WestonE]

Marcus

You will need 10mm cut off the end of the track rods to get the front adjustment! I ran 1.5 degrees negative front on my lively road car and it was transformed. I agree with starting with factory camber on the back. They compromised the front for steering weight on non PS cars and did not change it on the PS ones. With PS the camber change and 50 or 55 profile tyres you get really responsive but progressive steering with excellent feel. Your photo shows the situation well! be aware you are dialing out understeer which will make you faster until you reach oversteer which should be progressive, but could be lively in the wet. Shame you can not run to some 7x15s with Toyo R888s it would radically change your lap times, but probably burn your brakes out as you use the extra grip!

Eric
PS try to get John Day talking on this stuff as he really knows about Beta race set up having won the Italian Intermarque in his racing Beta.   

[andybeta]

Marcus,
Did you decide on how you were going to actually modify the strut mounting so the camber could be altered and remain secure? Did you go along the lines of having one of the strut bolts (eg upper) able to be moved for adjustment while the other remaining as std?

Yep 15x7 inch wheels would seem to be a must enabling sticky Toyo R888s to be fitted. Surely Eric has a wealth of advice for fitting bigger brakes from his experiences with his Monte ;@)

Does John Day tend to visit the Lancia forums?  I guess one would have to ring him up or go and visit him down near Brands Hatch.


Andrew

[lanciamad]

Thanks for the replies Eric/Andrew,

Did you decide on how you were going to actually modify the strut mounting so the camber could be altered and remain secure? Did you go along the lines of having one of the strut bolts (eg upper) able to be moved for adjustment while the other remaining as std?

To answer your question, yeh that. I increased the size of the upper bolt holes inwards to create the adjustment for negative camber, but as well as this, down sized the bolt size for the upper holes, fitted a spacer in the hub (to downsize the hole for the thinner bolt 12.9 grade bolt) and used washers to tighten up against the strut bodies, the lower bolt and holes are standard. Although i'm happy with the safety of this for the time being, when I get a chance I will be welding the washers in place to the strut body, this improving safety and also meaning the tracking won't go out of alignment everytime I take the suspension apart.
As i've already told Mark W, i've got some drilled/grooved discs and some tarox pads to burn out before I think about modifying the brakes anymore. I've seen what Mark/Eric have come up with so far for bigger brakes, and it's looking good. If and when I get some money, ok lots, I think i'll splash out in one go, bigger brake set up, wheels to fit the brake set up and some R888's, but for now i'm happy with what i've got I have suggested to Mark that i'm happy to do a brake test at a suitable venue against the bigger brake set up once fitted and tested on a car to see the difference.
Update
The garage have had the car last friday, and all today (monday) and have adjusted the camber and toe on the rear to standard. They have also set the camber on the fronts, but havn't done the toe as the "steering rod" as named in the haynes manual is solid and they cant get it to move. Alternatively, could they not just turn the track rod in and out to adjust
They are saying that I need two new track rods, so I whipped the wheels off to check them and I cant see anything wrong with them, apart from the rubbers which split within months of being fitted which was 3/4 years ago, the chap that mot's the car isn't interested, surely as long as there is no play in them it's a pass, but yes I know the rubbers being split will shorten there life.
I've paid the garage for what they've done, but am going to try another place to sort the front toe out; they also failed to weld the washers in place that I asked them to do, so i’ll have to do it. I really want to take it for a good drive/test to the AGM so fingers crossed there be able to sort the toe out before the weekend.

[lanciamad]

Booked the car in at lunch today, drove it over after work, half an hour later, £28 and job done. They said one side was pretty solid but eventually budged, and they didn't say I needed new track rods either!
Fronts now running 2 degrees negative and standard toe-out figures:

[andybeta]

I increased the size of the upper bolt holes inwards to create the adjustment for negative camber, but as well as this, down sized the bolt size for the upper holes, fitted a spacer in the hub (to downsize the hole for the thinner bolt 12.9 grade bolt) and used washers to tighten up against the strut bodies, the lower bolt and holes are standard. Although i'm happy with the safety of this for the time being, when I get a chance I will be welding the washers in place to the strut body, this improving safety and also meaning the tracking won't go out of alignment everytime I take the suspension apart.

Marcus,
That's pretty much what I envisaged doing when I come to alter mine. I have Koni adjustables front and rear. I was concerned about the upper bolt fixing slipping so have been thinking of using manly spring washers/serrated washers or fabricating some sort of locating washer/plates with wings with pins on the wings which would lock into small adjacent holes. But haven't made up my mind yet, but will problably use some of those serrated washers which will dig into the metal of both surfaces thus hopefully stopping them moving.

http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/washers.htm

Regards,

Andrew

[lanciamad]

In fact, I believe Eric and I were discussing that issue at the stanford hall meet. He was saying about the use of serrated washers, which he might use on his spyder project? I did think about them, and there a good idea; but i'm going to weld them up just to be sure they won't be moving. Due to the use of my vehicle I won't need to change the camber again so I might as well make them permanently fixed.
Marcus.

[lanciamad]

Back to the first garage I used, it seems there idea of tight and mine are somewhat different. Everything was tight enough to be driven, but I found that both hubs had roughly 0.5-1mm movement in them to find both bolts tight but not really tight to fully squash the strut and hub together. I've tightened everything up and everything seems ok (yet to test drive), also tack welded the top washers to the struts.
The second garage I used I thought was much better service but have just found out that there blow torch must have got friendly with my wheel arch liner as nearest the track rod end is now melted Frustrating when I cant get a job in the industry and these people can.