No Spark - ongoing issue - RESOLVED!

[spyder_resto]

Hi Everyone
I have been struggling to get my car (1979 2.0 spider with Bosch electronic ignition) started.
New cap, new leads and new plugs. New coil also
The issue is that I am not getting spark - have put spark plug onto ht lead and nothing.

What i have noticed today however is that when I turn key to position before last position (i.e where it cranks engine then I am getting a spark).  When I crank engine there is no spark.
I have a dodgy ignition switch , sometimes it cranks and sometimes it just clicks and you have to take key in and out and mess with it before the key will turn and fully crank engine.

I  need to change my ignition switch in any event.
Could this be the cause of car not starting?

Have also checked earth cables and cleaned up where they make contact on engine block and alternator.  - Have tested with multimeter and no drop in battery voltage when i check against body vs across battery.
Does anyone have a new ignition switch for sale at all? I saw that club is currently out of stock.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Simon

[WestonE]

Hi Simon.

Yes a dodgy ignition switch is very likely to be the issue, but also take the Distributor cap rotor and plastic shield off and check the condition of the wires to the ignition amplifier pickup.

Sorry I have no switches for sale. There are usually some on ebay.

Eric

[JohnFol]

Hi Simon, I had a replacement ignition switch from MidWest Bayless.

It's actually a Fiat 126 but with a wiring change.

I have details if you get stuck.

[Nigel]

I had a total failure earlier this year where the engine was initially running
well, then started to misfire for about 5 minutes, then cut out completely.

After recovery to home, I found an open circuit on the rotor arm.

I read that you have seen a spark, but it's worth checking. There is a resistor inside
which I suspect can partially fail before total.

Nigel

[WestonE]

Good point Nigel

A new distributor cap rotor, plugs and HT leads should be routine service work for a reliable car. If any of these are old and shabby they will take their revenge. This followed by checking ignition timing, changing filters, oil and belts and failing rubber hoses is how you get to enjoy the car not ride on flat beds. Note the ignition switches are poor and you should run the ignition via a relay to stop the contacts inside melting into the plastic over time. This is an early job on Montecarlos which fail the same way.

Eric   

[spyder_resto]

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Have ordered the ignition switch from Bayless and will fit that to exclude the ignition switch as being an issue.
If there is still no joy then may just get distributor reconditioned and refit it as that is now the last untouched part and having changed everything else should help me get closer to the issue.
Happy new year all !

Simon

[lancialulu]

Check all the multiplugs at the base of the relay/fuse box.

[kbetas]

We had a similar issue with the rally car. Occasionally it wouldnt start or worse it stopped when driving!. Traced it to some very dodgy wiring between the ignition switch and kill switch. Running perfectly since we replaced the bodge!.

[spyder_resto]

I connected the wiring connector from new ignition switch without attaching it to the steering column and turned over the engine.
What is weird is that as i previously said sometimes the car will not crank engine on every fourth attempt. When i connected the new ignition switch then this is still happening.
On top of that now I am not getting the spark in the power only position from a spark plug on crankcase.
checked all of the connectors at the base of the fuse box and they all looked connected properly.

I am now stumped !

Is there anyone in the locality of the west midlands near west bromwich who fancies coming to try and help me identify this issue?
Thanks
Si

[Ammy]

Check the wire where it enters the distributor, I had a similar problem with my Spyder and found the wire had "chaffed" on the body of the distributor causing a short.

[lancialulu]

We had a similar issue with the rally car. Occasionally it wouldnt start or worse it stopped when driving!. Traced it to some very dodgy wiring between the ignition switch and kill switch. Running perfectly since we replaced the bodge!.

Did you look inside the relay fuse box as with those wires melted you may find some fat wires in box behind the fuses and relays similarly distressed??

[spyder_resto]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The post with melted wires was not my car and was from another forum member.

Will check the distributor wire tomorrow !

Si

[spyder_resto]

Hi everyone,

I finally managed to get my lancia beta started !!

An auto electrician came over and spent some time diagnosing.

It turned out there were two issues:
1. One of the wires going into the connector block for the bosh electronic ignition had come out of the block.
2. Fuse 5 (which is for the ignition) has an issue as there was no power at that fuse.

The fault in the fuse box also explains why the car would not start sometimes.

Was so happy to hear her run for a few seconds.

Will be changing my fuel pump now and then hopefully we can get her running properly.

Also need to track down a replacement fuse box - please pm if you have a good one for sale.

Thanks everyone for your advice !

Much appreciated.

Si

[peteracs]

Hi

Which fuse box? Photo would be useful. I have one or two spare.

Peter

[WestonE]

Hi Si

Good News! As you know exactly which fuse in your box and everything else works remove the rear cover and trace the wires to fuse number 5 and replace them. The connectors are standard AMP crimp on terminals. Use wire of the same or greater core thickness.
Of course you might find the wires in the box have overheated and fused together which then becomes an epic repair. Do check any spare you get by removing the rear cover and inspecting.

Eric

[lancialulu]

Also need to track down a replacement fuse box - please pm if you have a good one for sale.

Try Brian Cates zagatoseven@hotmail.com - I know he had 2 when I wanted one...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155941420478?_skw=Lancia+Beta+fuse+box&itmmeta=01JHAEQ9N5FXDDTZWWME8R2Z0Y&hash=item244ed53dbe:g:alkAAOSw5xJldeSp&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmiBbHp7LooCvz%2FmROjpPMqEgY%2Bo%2Bqsy4h1INfgcGNnrBmTmVqFO4hvuaZ8wniDgzv5WD8%2B8huOq2sN1NbPrQLkR9lKa2TW5a%2BKjOWNR72E9wRIMDTtOWZpmUOfyWz6tvOlNCmal2tx8s3mXdWd9LXLdZv20%2FDQR9VrSv4FLXU3p63RZy1orkVr1RZtIsksJQujI%2BNhOtIwg9UDi7nFMQQ17UTkgo%2FaqJojynTpkP7KkNpxcR4u9vN6bty5Lb0%2BaEM%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-Ca3c6KZQ

Tim