BBC Top Gear Programme - Lancia Feature 29th Nov 2009

[blazer_one]

i agree there was a lot of truth in what they said but overall it made me feel proud to be a lancia nut!

by the way i want that fulvia it was a stunning car!

[thecolonel]

I can give you Marks number but, I don't think he'll be selling anytime soon.

[thecolonel]

Fiat may have been in charge but the Gamma had a Lancia engine unlike anything that followed ;-})

Seriously though, good programme for the marque, I liked the fact that whatever you do to a Beta
it will just keep on going

[snapper8v]

With thanks to Al (the mod from the Evo-Forum) here's the link to the programme http://delta.hi.fi/kuvat/VIDEO/9405623905-93162.avi

[MattNoVAT]

After seeing the program and checking with DVLA the green Coupe was the 1300 from Littlehampton.

I looked at that car as a potential track car / parts donor!

[TreviDash]

Great surprise to see Lancia as a marque featured so upbeat! Shocked, in fact 

It's a shame that bites of the Beta script were lifted straight out of Clarkson's 1998 Unleashed on Cars video word-for-word..

Regarding the Fulvia and the price being higher than the E-Type - yes, but inflated values were true for many imports due to the duty at the time. Bit naughty not to explain that point.

The Airship had me in stitches.  I know Cardington well so it was a pleasant surprise 

I'm off to buy a Marina quick, before the Pianos get them all....

Date of Liability  01 06 1993 


Oh look at that gas bottle they planted in there go!   

[Paul Greenway]

No qualms with the programme at all, very light hearted and as always with TG whenever they rave about anything, they always throw in a couple of negatives i.e. the dreaded R word. But hey so what I only got positive jibes from my mates/collegues and no grief at all. If anything they now all understand/believe? what I have been saying all along that Lancia's are great.

Stu Wilson from Cumbria owns the nuovo Delta, he gave me a lift in it- very nice and powerful and he still owns the Lybra SW and a Fulvia & Y10 too!

[rossocorsa]

 the nuovo Delta

should that be the nuovo nuovo delta? the beta and gamma have been over taken over by the original nuovo delta as the forgotten lancia I had a HPE turbo for 7 years probably in most respects the best car I ever had  so underrated it was and still is a crime

[thecolonel]

Had to laugh this morning, saw two people taking photos of the Gamma in the driveway

[TonyLanciaBeta]

now on BBCiplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4z1y/Top_Gear_Series_14_Episode_3/

[hutch6610]

Gentlemen ....... did any of you watch the same program i did?

actually they weren't that negative about the Beta

No ..... it was just a pile of poop that ruined Lancia's reputation (alright it did to a point, thanks to Ester Rantzen etc but they still sold a lot of Betas!) was the impression i got from the program.
The Beta was treated as filth!
Two examples - coupe and HPE - also wrecked!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am very surprised at you guys!
I obviously don't have very thick skin.

The Aprilia bit was a disgrace! i have worked on one of these, it has a rubber seal between the front and rear door to keep the weather out, was it not also the first monocoque production car.
Ahh the Gospel according to Top Gear.
Its also right hand drive because the Italians drove on the same side as we did (well actually both) .... owner informed me of that.
On one side in town and the other driving in the country .... don't know which.

Lancia put the Stratos's (pronounced straartos by Jeremy) oil pressure warning light in front of the driver - says it all about Ferraris engine doesn't it.

The owner of the Hawk must be fuming as to the way his car was portrayed - i would kill Jeremy if he drove my car with the metal side wiping my windscreen .... bet it was all faked for the cameras - like the Beta not starting and later catching fire.

Montecarlo slated on the brakes (Lancia just removed the servo) and made it a death trap, Gamma blows up if you turn the steering wheel ... did i miss anything?

Oh and the word Desicsion .... is this correct or a spelling mistake?

I did not want to watch this program because i knew what was going to happen i had read this discussion here and assumed it was not bad.... on telling the Aprilia owner i was advised to watch and judge for myself ........ wish i hadn't now.

Oh and the rodent that likes to bury his head in the ground then goes on to complain the Integrale only came in left hand drive ...... i don't blame Lancia for that at all ... that's what i would have done to spite the British (sorry!) especially when they tried to be honest and admit they had made a mistake and been treated the way they had - i am originally from the Mediterranean area so can understand the Italian temperament.

I mean just because other companies would pretend that there was no problem ... that's un-British in itself, or so i was taught at school .... isn't it? does not mean to say they should have done the same .... if your neighbors are thieves does that make it alright for you to be one?

If this upsets you all then i am sorry, bet i will get a lot of flack for this post.

I bet the LMC won't be as forgiving on this program.

[MattNoVAT]

I know Nico (the owner of the Grp 4 replica) and chairman of the SEC were trying to ban the BBC from using any of the footage and now they are talking about raising a case with OFCOM.

For the most part TG didn't say anything that we had not heard before, most of my petrolhead friends were actually very complimentary about Lancia and the direction the programme took.  We all agreed that while it was not perfect (and I think we'd all agree on this forum that no Lancia is perfect!) that on the whole it came across as pretty positive.  But life ain't perfect and sometimes you have to take a few honest facts on board, or do you want to spend your life looking through rose tinted glasses?

It saddens me a little that so far people who did not like the show have only focused on the negative points, can I gently remind people that there were plenty of positives:

First, the point of the feature was that in TG's opinion, LANCIA had made the MOST GREAT CARS of any manufacturer!

Second, they thought Lancia always produced beautiful cars - including the Beta Coupe which they did say..!!  Also, they demonstrated how indestructible the Beta is, again in the usual TG humourous way.

They praised the Fulvia for its looks and also the MonteCarlo, the Integrale for its 6 consecutive rallying wins which has never been repeated and the 037 for being the only 2WD to beat the mighty Quattro's ( thats no mean feat).

We all know the green Coupe and the HPE were set ups, bits falling off and flames from under the bonnet (from a gas bottle) etc etc - we knew that the TG team would pull something like that as thats the nature of the show and I don't hear too many people complaining about the Marina getting "Piano'ed" again so I think those that are being offended are being a little 'over-sensitive'.

If you read the Stratos Forum then you can read some of the facts over what went on with Nico's car, but between the Morris Marina club and the SEC going "ape" TG will have plenty of ammunition if they want to continue to make fun of what are essentially some very very small clubs. I do hope that the BetaBoyz do not go down that route.

[rossocorsa]

I thought that a lot of these digs weren't meant to be too serious just to show what an eccentric but brilliant brand lancia is, they killed two betas but I suspect both were terminal anyway, the tv screen hides a lot of sins. I don't know the history of the hawk bit but was that not meant to be a lesson on the erratic nature of kit cars rather than a dig at a particular car (or lancia) although I can understand how the owner would be upset. I think most of the great unwashed would see this as a positive promotion of Lancia as they will not analyse it in minute detail merely watching it as light entertainment like we all do on any other week

[Skirmish]

I think if you dance with the devil then you should be prepared for the consequences. Everyone knows what TG is all about so you shouldn't really expect them to portray everything in a good light.

My dad bought his first Beta after trading in his Marina TC so TG was particularly hard for him to watch! Incidentally his Beta was one that had 'the' problem and got quite a good pay out that was then used to buy a newer one.

I actually enjoyed the programme but probably like most real Lancia enthusiasts concentrated on the superb visual content rather than the audio which was typical TG.

[hutch6610]

Well i watched the program again to find the part about the Beta being described as beautiful.

thought Lancia always produced beautiful cars - including the Beta Coupe which they did say..!!

Well i couldn't find it - the BEYTER was said in disgust by Clarkson - like some illegitimate little sprog born to the gentry and kept hidden away in the cellar or attic.

No where did i hear that although the early cars had rust it was still a good car and outsold BMW etc, etc, three independent  people (not on this forum) have agreed with me it was a negative portrayal.

What i did remember was;-
This is a collection of art, of madness, of brilliance.
This is a collection of pornography.
This is a collection of Lancia's.

You know what? - not one immaculate Beta amongst them, not one being filmed on a country being driven along with the rodent going on about its great road holding, handsome looks - which it does have .... what a shame about the rust!
Guy Croft mentioned him boring his pants off going on his dog and his girlfriend - nice one Guy you do have a sense of humour after all, i stand corrected.

I don't view the world through rose tinted spectacles - Enid Blyton, turkey sandwiches with lashings of ginger beer.
I also don't see things in black and white either .... i see things in shades of gray - very dark shades at that.

At the beginning of this merged topic its mentioned that immaculate examples of the Beta range (including a Trevi) were supplied but they only used the Monte ....... why?
Because they want to perpetuate the myth that the car we all have ...... was sh*t .... make no bones about it.

I like Marinas - had two actually and was sickened by seeing them demolish yet another one.

Maybe it was a positive thing for Lancia - the world finding out they won the world rally championship ten times - but they only showed the cars with the street cred in some sort of positive light.

That's the Aprilia, Fulvia, 037, Stratos (straartos) gamma, Thema (because it had a Ferrari lump in it) Delta Integrale.
By the way the Hawk aint a Lancia so it does not count - but felt badly for the owner ... especially read about it on the other forums.

Now these cars have their own "Clique" if you will and don't need us to to promote awareness - one of the things the BetaBoyz i met are trying to do as well as produce parts etc, etc.

So whats the point of this forum if apathy is going to creep in and you don't stand up for this car - they actually have you believing what they portrayed!

Anyway - i will leave it at that before i say something i regret.

[Thotos]

I thought I stood alone at not liking the way they protrayed Lancia on Top Gear as I originally only saw positive reports about the programme. I so much agree with you hutch6610 and I am glad to see I am not alone.... 

[rossocorsa]

Well i watched the program again to find the part about the Beta being described as beautiful.

thought Lancia always produced beautiful cars - including the Beta Coupe which they did say..!!

Well i couldn't find it - the BEYTER was said in disgust by Clarkson - like some illegitimate little sprog born to the gentry and kept hidden away in the cellar or attic.

No where did i hear that although the early cars had rust it was still a good car and outsold BMW etc, etc, three independent  people (not on this forum) have agreed with me it was a negative portrayal.

What i did remember was;-
This is a collection of art, of madness, of brilliance.
This is a collection of pornography.
This is a collection of Lancia's.

You know what? - not one immaculate Beta amongst them, not one being filmed on a country being driven along with the rodent going on about its great road holding, handsome looks - which it does have .... what a shame about the rust!
Guy Croft mentioned him boring his pants off going on his dog and his girlfriend - nice one Guy you do have a sense of humour after all, i stand corrected.

I don't view the world through rose tinted spectacles - Enid Blyton, turkey sandwiches with lashings of ginger beer.
I also don't see things in black and white either .... i see things in shades of gray - very dark shades at that.

At the beginning of this merged topic its mentioned that immaculate examples of the Beta range (including a Trevi) were supplied but they only used the Monte ....... why?
Because they want to perpetuate the myth that the car we all have ...... was sh*t .... make no bones about it.

I like Marinas - had two actually and was sickened by seeing them demolish yet another one.

Maybe it was a positive thing for Lancia - the world finding out they won the world rally championship ten times - but they only showed the cars with the street cred in some sort of positive light.

That's the Aprilia, Fulvia, 037, Stratos (straartos) gamma, Thema (because it had a Ferrari lump in it) Delta Integrale.
By the way the Hawk aint a Lancia so it does not count - but felt badly for the owner ... especially read about it on the other forums.

Now these cars have their own "Clique" if you will and don't need us to to promote awareness - one of the things the BetaBoyz i met are trying to do as well as produce parts etc, etc.

So whats the point of this forum if apathy is going to creep in and you don't stand up for this car - they actually have you believing what they portrayed!

Anyway - i will leave it at that before i say something i regret.

sorry if this is a long quote but I couldn't find a snippet from your post to use, I would agree that the programme was a little bit disappointing but in getting a rant on about the treatment of the Beta you are missing the point that it's primarily an entertainment show with car content. I still believe that to the general public it looked like a very positive view on all Lancias, perhaps excepting the latest Delta. It's never meant to be a 100% factual programme (do you remember Top Gear when it was?...my god that was bad!) as Lancisti we are all prone to over analyse the programme in a way that ordinary folk will not on the whole it was good for Lancia and not such a bad press for Betas, as I've seen commented elsewhere Alfa Romeo got off worse a while back as did those budget supercars they bought. I do agree  that the Marina joke has run its course though however crap they are it's a shame to eradicate the final few survivors

interesting comment on pronunciation I think that Clarkson is half way correct as it's not beeetah as we Brits say but baytah we are rubbish at lancia names look at thema we pronounce it as it appears to be spelt but it is actually pronounced tay-ma we even pronounce Lancia wrong saying landseer when it is something like laan-cha

[TreviDash]

I really have to agree (near-word-for-word!) with rossocorsa  

I said Lan-cha a few times at NEC and was given a puzzled look


I don't see much point of ranting.  This is a public place and we will be labelled loony.  Please, please nobody write into TG.  If they receive one ranty letter of demands, next week they will play it for laughs and plonk a Piano on a Beta.  Twice.

Be thankful this marque of ours got some upbeat exposure - a PR dream!
I feel that any programme lifting the profile of Italian brands is to be applauded, no?

Ignore the Beta cliche and smile, knowingly.  Clarkson and TG can't really go back on their 1994 'Arthur Mead' episode, or the spot on the 1998 Unleashed on Cars DVD as they're both on YouTube.  Ford owners must be stewing moreso, as the voting of Lancia in the programme was obviously tongue in cheek - it was a throwback to Clarkson's piece from 1994.  From reading the LMC and CLS posts, so very much was left on the cutting room floor.

Maybe Lancia enthusiasts have come out of it as idiosyncratic and a bit 'cool' after the programme? I've had a few approaches myself since it was aired, all favourable.

Clarkson wrote favourably in his Times column in 2008 regarding Lancia and how much he liked Tony Harrison's car.  That column doesn't play to the masses for laughs and ratings anything like the level the TV programme needs.

As for the gags they're going to irritate the grumpy old men but they have the kids in stitches and make it watchable for mum - and without it having "something for everyone" the TV would be on another channel

We don't all like all of it but a great many people find it unmissable

Get on youtube and watch some, say, pre-1995 episodes of the original Top Gear programme. You just couldn't sell that format today - which is why Fifth Gear, Driven, Pulling Power etc have been dropped.  It's a sign of the times.


Maybe, if and when Delta arrives in the UK, the public will be better informed and ready for a decent review!

[Sledgewomble]

Personally I thought it was reasonable - after all it was about Lancia as a whole and not beta's. 

It could have been worse - at least they included the Beta as a Lancia and didn't try to suggest it was just a re-badged Fiat.  Yes, it could have been better and they could have described the Beta as the Italian car bargain that it is.

As an aside my car has a plaque and a certificate saying that it was on the Top Gear stand at a show at the NEC in the 90's so they haven't destroyed every Beta they've had their hands on!

[thecolonel]

You lot are lucky - I've still got a Gamma so I'm a complete outcast.

I really don't care what anyone else thinks about my choice of cars, I choose to drive a Lancia
that's different from the run of the mill everyday euroboxes that the modern man is stuck with.
I'm glad there are only a few Gammas around and that I'm part of a somewhat eccentric group.

I also miss my HPE acually I miss all five of them and I'd love to have one as a day-to-day car
and one day I will, regardless of what anyone says. (I will say I DON'T want a Marina)