Early HPE restoration

[peteracs]

Hi

Had some photos and info back from the bodywork guy.

He has been removing the crossmember which sits below the front seats. As I suspected the HPE was quite rusty there. I remember the restoration Honkongphooey did on his and found how poor his car was underneath it, see https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/71914/1977-lancia-beta-spyder for his restoration.

Also the Coupe was also rusty, but not as bad. So the plan continues, but the split will now be behind the crossmember is the current thinking.

Photos of both cars below, blue is HPE, black is Coupe.

Peter

[Nigel]

Hi Peter,
Going back a little further than you thought.
No matter, nice to see the issues.
I had a thought earlier. You may well have to use the
front subframe from the Coupe as I think the rear body mount
bolts are in a different position on the later cars.

Nigel

[peteracs]

Hi Nigel

Yes, and you are correct the bodywork guy has to modify the jig because they are different.

Every day a school day as they say.

Peter

[peteracs]

A bit of an un-necessary purchase this one. On my Spider despite being S2 it had a few tell tail S1 features as it is a very early S2. One of them was the illuminated red door open lights. Most S2 and later have simple reflectors. I always liked this feature, but they are hard to find and usually expensive so I had written them off. However trolling through leboncoin.fr whilst here in France I saw a pair at realistic money and decided to buy them. They will need some cleaning up, but are probably in better condition than the ones originall were on the Spider. They also came with the door seal etc which is a full result.

Now onto looking for mirrors and window winder handles…..

[betaveloce]

Hi Peter,

nice touch 

FYI, Bielstein sell these new: https://www.bielstein.com/Light-for-door-Carello-14784718

I've bought them for my HPE (allthough that's an I.E., but I also like the feature), but haven't come round to fitting them yet – I'm also planning on changing the manual windows to electric and intend to do both jobs in one go  )

[peteracs]

Hi

I did not know they were still available new and not silly price either. I paid 33 Euros Inc shipping for everything inc the door routing part so happy with the deal.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Hi Peter,

nice touch 

FYI, Bielstein sell these new: https://www.bielstein.com/Light-for-door-Carello-14784718

I've bought them for my HPE (allthough that's an I.E., but I also like the feature), but haven't come round to fitting them yet – I'm also planning on changing the manual windows to electric and intend to do both jobs in one go  )

And guess what else uses them? Stratos and Gamma and multiple Ferraris. The Alfa 164 has something the same size too. The ones in the link are correct for the Stratos with the Carello logo in a circular pattern and the price is excellent. There's not much call from them from the replica world as the door mouldings don't incorporate the recesses to hold them. Yet. It's something I modified on my car 30 odd years ago when I built it. Sadly my donor Beta only had the reflectors but it wasn't difficult to find the lights in scrapyards back in those days!
Guy

[Nigel]

I'm also planning on changing the manual windows to electric and intend to do both jobs in one go  )

Kevin, that'll be interesting.
You may well find, if not already, that
the wiring is already in place, tucked away at the rear of the centre
console.

Nigel

[peteracs]

Back from France, Whilst out there I exchanged messages with a guy who is breaking a few Betas looking for the cover for the seatbelt retainer on the pre facelift HPE which is missing on my car. After a bit of a wait, he confirmed he had one, then said the price was 70 Euros which for a small cover was way too much in my view. I did offer a compromise, but he was obviously not for moving. No idea why these folk think that parts like this are worth so much or am I just getting old and grumpy….?

As the original will be re-covered I suspect I may end up making one, but will keeping looking out for another car being parted out.

Peter

[peteracs]

Just before leaving for France I ordered a fan for the HPE. As I am using the original size radiator, I have kept to the 10” size of the fan, but wanted a modern take on it rather than keep the old original which from memory is fairly inefficient. I have certainly blown a 16A fuse on the Spider, so after some Googling, reading review I settled on a slim line fan from Mishimoto. They appear to be well regarded with U.K. suppliers and come with lifetime warranty from the manufacturer. They also do race versions, so all in all they should be producing reputable products. Certainly the fan does appear well made. I also bought a mounting kit which may or may not be of use.

My plan is to fit it to the Spider as a test and see how it performs. I have no flow data for the OEM fan, so it will be a suck it and see. If it works ok on the Spider then I would expect the uprated radiator in the HPE will be ok as well.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Small warning on this type of fan, they can have push or pull type blades Peter and that dictates which side of the radiator they're mounted. Getting it wrong means reduced airflow and some serious damage. From my Beta days I think there's enough room infront of the radiator to mount a pusher type and leave the original puller type in place?
Guy

[mangocrazy]

I'll be watching this with interest, as I need to squeeze out every millimetre of space between radiator and carbs and a push type unit in front of the radiator is one way of 'pinching an inch' or two...

[SanRemo78]

Coolant temperatures on the Stratos replica were a worry for a while - I'm running a 3.0 V6 through a Fiat X1/9 radiator. On the plus side there is more coolant in the system but conversely it has to be pumped further. What made the biggest differences were twofold, a second fan on the radiator cured rising temperatures at tickover (albeit with the occasional pump of the throttle to move the coolant around) but the biggest change for when the car was moving was to duct the airflow coming in the grille to go through the matrix and stop is escaping around the side, top and bottom of the radiator. Same principle will apply to the Beta, make sure any air coming through the grille has to go through the radiator!

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

Thanks for the tip. This fan

https://www.mishimoto.co.uk/mishimoto-slim-line-electric-radiator-fan-10.html#features

Can be used in either push or pull configurations.

I am probably going to stick with pull as I should have plenty of space with using downdraught throttle bodies in the final design.

I also take on board the funnelling which is pretty good on the pre facelift front grill configuration which I aim to keep with the same format of radiator as original.

Graham, which configuration of radiator do you have as on the previous facelift the radiator sits further back than the later cars and hence more room in front to mount a push fan.

Peter

[WestonE]

I mounted push and pull fans on my custom alloy radiator for the Tuned VX Engine going into my Spyder. We will see if this is good enough!

Eric
PS the Monte uses twin 10 inch fans pulling. These came from Car Builder Solutions and have been excellent.

[mangocrazy]

Hi Peter,

My radiator configuration at present is OE S2FL, with the fan behind the rad in a pull configuration. I'll be using DCOE45s and am hoping that I can find room to fit a plenum chamber over/round the carb bellmouths, but I know it will be very, very tight space wise. So whatever I can do to increase space between radiator and carbs will be done. I'm certainly looking at a custom radiator and even trying to move the radiator forwards, if indeed that is possible, to try and squeeze a plenum chamber in. Until the refurbished engine and carbs are in the car I won't know just how much (or more accurately, how little) space I will have to work with.

Eric has already warned me that it's borderline whether it's possible or not...

Graham

[peteracs]

Hi Graham

Good luck with that. I too have to make a custom plenum, but it is on top of a downdraught configuration so much simpler to route the cold air and avoid the hot radiator air.

I decided to put a chap on Ebay out of his misery. He had listed this wheel for months it seemed without a taker, so made an offer which was accepted. I now have 5 rims to choose from, hopefully all will be serviceable when refurbished to give me complete set.

I now need to start selling the standard rims I have accumulated over the years, anybody need any?

Peter

[peteracs]

On with buying spree, does it ever end?

I had posted here and also on Facebook if anyone had any of the angular mirrors which came on some of the early Betas. I much prefer them to the flat back ones which were also supplied.

One person replied, Aaron, from the U.K., saying he had a pair NOS which he purchased in Italy, but wanted a black pair for his Stratos replica build. That was lucky as the HPE had come with a pair of original black ones which I was not going to use. So the deal was done and I now have an amazing condition pair of these mirrors. The only issue is that one of the mirror glass has marks, but Guy kindly sent me some replacements which he had made, so careful replacement will be required.

Peter

[SanRemo78]

Karma! Glad I was able to help Aaron to come to the realisation that his mirrors belong on a Beta! He now knows that the left side mirror on a Stratos differs but I've been able to help him on that front too!

Everyone is happy!

Guy

[peteracs]

Hi Guy

Thanks, yes it would have been criminal to paint these.

Peter