Front Strut Mount Bearing Replacement

[swedgamma]

Hello again!

So far I´ve verified that the previous "no number" bearing is the 82303013.I have taken a strut from a 1978 Beta Coupe 2000 and disassembled it and this car was equipped
with this  bearing.Even if you look in an earlier parts catalog this seems to be the same (1976). Whether this is applicable on an Austalian 1979 version I cant tell.I have never had any problems with these bearings on my cars.
The other one(823822101) seems to be used  on Fiat Ritmo/Lancia Delta acc to some info I`ve found here. May be they are used on some newer Betas,no Betas after 1979 were sold new here in Sweden.
  So,if you need a couple of these I can send them to you. Note:In the parts book ,item no 17 looks like one part,in reality its three parts,one bearing, one washer and one rubber sealing ring.

Greetings Urban(swedgamma)   PS Yes I quite easily took a photo of these parts, but upload them...........yes,I`m getting older.....!

[Gromit]

Ok thanks Urban, I`ll PM you re sending a couple of the 82303013 bearings.

[john930]

I fitted the ones from Bielstein to my series 2 spider without a problem. 

[peteracs]

Hi

What p/n did you use?

Peter

[Gromit]

The bearing part number referred to in the Bielstein listing is 82301195 Peter. Is that what you were seeking confirmation of in your question to John930 in NZ?

http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/beta/suspension/roller-bearing-strut-front-top

The bearings from Swedegamma (Urban) have just arrived (received 8 days after posting - great service from Swede and Australia Post!). Thanks Urban! I shall try to post some pictures of them for future reference to assist forum users. I am amazed at how small the many needle rollers actually are in the bearing cage. I guess they are there mainly to eliminate steering friction when the strut turns and not load bearing but you wonder whether they could have been a bit beefier for longevity wear wise.

How would a solid thrust washer machined out of teflon rod work as an alternative substitute I wonder?

We are planning to do a few more maintenance jobs on the Beta Coupe at the same time as replacing the strut bearings:

- The TRW steering rack boot, (or gaiter as it seems to be referred to more commonly on this forum), is split so that needs replacing. Not sure about rack bushes or what else might be needed re steering rack overhaul? I guess we will see on closer inspection. Dad has spare TRW tie rod ends so might as well fit them at same time.

- Will check whether steering damper has seized and probably remove it altogether based on experiences of Stuart et al with seized dampers which were removed or replaced. They do now seem to be very hard to find replacement wise.

- probably replace outer CV joint boots.

- I am not sure about condition of ball joints and control arm bushes but if they look worn and parts available I guess they should be done too.

- Neil made reference to possible failed steering column lower bearing as another cause of heavy steering so that needs to be checked too. Is that tricky to replace I wonder?

Beta maintenance ...a never ending cycle  

[Neil-yaj396]

I think that the rack needs to come out to replace the bearing.

[Gromit]

The Coupe had its strut mount bearings replaced this week with new bearings smeared with moly grease. The bearings supplied by swedgamma as per this thread were the exact same type as on the car. The old bearings were still intact but worn and dry with no visible lubricating grease remaining. Tie rod ends and lower ball joints were also replaced as Dad had them in his parts box; existing lower wishbone bushes were ok. The steering rack was removed to fit a new gaiter and generously lubricated with moly grease. Apparently the rack was in good condition and did not require new bushes or adjustment. The steering damper (all metal type) was in reasonable condition and apparently still operating ok ie had not seized so was reinstalled. Steering column bearings were in good condition. The car needs a wheel alignment which will be done on Monday next week.

I have only driven the Coupe a few km home from the workshop today. The steering is definitely lighter, not miraculously so but it does require less turning effort during cornering. Small tight roundabouts are still a bit of a chore though steering input wise. I think we have improved the steering as much as is possible on a non PAS Beta,  back to original ex factory performance level. The contemporary Beta reviews I have read commented on the heavy steering of non PAS models so it will never be feather-light. My father was hoping for a 50% improvement or reduction in steering effort (based on his assumption that the pivot bearings were completely stuffed). I think we have achieved something more like a 25% improvement although it is very difficult to quantify the magnitude of the improvement. I am looking forward to a longer test drive after the wheel alignment is done.

I have not had a close look at the old removed bearings yet (they need a good clean) but I have attached a couple of pictures of the old and new replacement bearings.

Thank you once again to all forum members who have assisted me and especially Urban (swedgamma) for supplying those replacement bearings.

PS An interesting day`s test cricket (England v Australia) of fluctuating fortunes today in Brisbane. The game seems very evenly poised at the moment.

PPS Apparently there were many admiring comments when the Coupe was in the workshop

[mangocrazy]

Completely off-topic, but I think the current Ashes series could be really interesting and closer than most people thought, as (despite all the hype) the two sides seem quite evenly matched. I think that Nathan Lyon's control, allowing him to hold up an end while the quicks rotate at the other end, may prove the difference. Should be an absorbing contest.

And well done with the steering refurb!

[Gromit]

Thanks Mangocrazy

Unfortunately when the car was up on the hoist having the wheel alignment done, we noticed that one of the transverse links was damaged (bent) and that there were two stress cracks (about an inch long) on the rear chassis rails adjacent to the two front mounting points of the fuel tank. The tank does not appear to be sagging but it is a bit of a worry that the chassis rail is cracked near the mounting points. The damage appears to be old. So the rear wheel alignment has not been done pending getting the bent transverse link repaired or replaced.

I am amazed that the mechanic doing the work of fitting the priming electric fuel pump above the rear cross member, (who also did the front suspension and steering rack work a few weeks later), did not notice the transverse link damage and chassis rail cracks and report them to us. There are also a couple of dings on the front driver side corner of the fuel tank with what appears to be fresh exposed bare metal to me which made me wonder whether the damage was caused when the car was worked on recently by same said mechanic. My brother had a look under the car and reckons the chassis rail cracks and transverse link damage is old though so presumably not

Anyway the car is going back to the mechanic tomorrow for a hoist inspection of the problem by him.

I came across this old thread re a damaged transverse link and have contacted betaveloce by PM in case he still has a spare NOS transverse link and it is the right one for the car. (Post update - betaveloce`s spare link is no longer available).

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3395.0

It might be an easier fix than repairing the damaged one. Perhaps we should also replace all of the link bushes at the same time? They are probably still the original ones on the car. Any thoughts re the poly ones available from LBP? I assume that the transverse links on the car are the "pressed metal" type? They are a C (or U) section channel configuration. Are they all the same length and interchangeable?  

The toe adjustment on the rear suspension appears to be via an adjusting nut adjacent to the bush of the rearmost of the pair of transverse links at the point of attachment to each hub on our series 2 Coupe. The wheel aligner assured me that there was no adjustment possible...I had to assure him back that indeed there was and we eventually found it!

 

[HFStuart]

Yes those are the pressed steel ones. No stronger than they need be so they are very commonly bent.

I think the brakes are all the same.

NB it's one thing finding the adjuster, sometimes not so simple to make it adjust!

[Gromit]

Here is an update post the hoist inspection of the rear chassis rail cracks near fuel tank front mounting points and bent transverse link at mechanic`s workshop today:

1) Bent transverse link is relatively minor and easily repaired - no need for replacement transverse link after all.

2) One of the rear chassis rail cracks near fuel tank front mount point (driver`s side) has open up alarmingly since last being inspected during the wheel alignment only a week or so ago. The car has only been driven back from the tyre retailer to home and back to the mechanic`s workshop (20 Km max) and the chassis rail crack on one side is now three times longer with fuel tank starting to sag on that side!

A temporary fix was achieved by wedging a short length of thick walled rubber hose between the front of the fuel tank and the centre of rear cross member to help support it and stop any tendency for the tank to sag further.

The fuel tank will have to be removed and a new piece of metal welded to rear chassis rails on either side to strengthen the rails where the fuel tank is bolted to rails. Some of the body deadener is peeling off the tank exterior so it will need a wire brush and recoating with body deadener. It would be good to replace the tank sender unit gasket and the flexible rubber fuel tank inlet filler hose (between inlet filler and the side of the tank) as it feels quite spongy, if both parts can be sourced.

There does not appear to be much in the way of rust in the chassis rails. Then again I guess it does not take much to weaken the rails especially if there are stress cracks from a previous impact or years of road surface thumps transmitted through the chassis. Our local roads are pretty bad patched, cracked and pot holed surface wise! I think South Australian roads are some of the worst in the country. Road surface maintenance expenditure has fallen well behind in recent years as a form of covert cost cutting. Very annoying

Hopefully the tank interior is in reasonable shape. I guess we will see when it is removed and inspected.

[Neil-yaj396]

What exactly do you mean by 'chassis rails'? (obviously there isn't a chassis....). A picture of the crack would be interesting, I've never seen a crack down there bad enough to affect the alignment of the tank.

[rossocorsa]

I'm guessing he means the box section that extends backwards from the sills, rather prone to corrosion there I would suspect some corrosion causing the weakness I can't say I've seen cracked sections on Betas here

[Gromit]

Neil, you are right, poor terminology on my part - there are no chassis rails on a monocoque bodied car.

I think Rossocorsa has a better idea of what I mean than I do.

I think I was referring to the box section strengthened part of the underbody floor pan behind the rear cross member to which the fuel tank supporting lugs are bolted. The two cracks are adjacent to where the front of the fuel tank bolts to each parallel box section profiled channel. The crack is now much worse on the drivers side box section.  

I`ll have a look under the car again tomorrow to be sure (the car is garaged at my mother`s house). I`ll also try to get a few pics when it is on a hoist at the chassis repairer workshop.

[Gromit]

I have just purchased a couple of spare Beta front strut thrust plate bearings from a local Lancia parts supplier. I thought they were genuine Lancia NOS but they came in their SKF packaging and are marked "Made in Germany". The correct SKF needle roller and cage thrust assembly part number is SKF AXK 4060. This is equivalent to Lancia part number 82303013. These bearings are readily available from bearing specialist companies. So now their are no excuses not to replace your worn out front strut thrust plate bearings with inexpensive SKF replacements!

https://www.skf.com/uk/products/rolling-bearings/roller-bearings/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/productid-AXK%204060

https://www.acorn-ind.co.uk/p/skf/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/axk4060-skf/

https://bepltd.com/products/axk4060-40x60x3mm-skf-needle-roller-thrust-bearing

Andrew

[peteracs]

Hi

Thanks for that, very useful and at the point I am putting the front strut tops together!

Looks like various U.K. suppliers at little money.

There is also a companion washer, the LS4060

Peter

[Nigel]

Peter,
The companion washer fits above the bearing?
As I recall the lower bearing surface is a part of the strut top?

Nigel, (being tempted to repeat works due to non-centering steering!)

[peteracs]

Hi Nigel

Off the top of my head I cannot remember the exact configuration, will have to dig out the strut tops I have just painted. I seem to think there are replaceable washers separate to the main metalwork of the strut both top and bottom.

Peter

[Gromit]

Peter/Nigel,

There are two photos in reply#26 of this thread, (just scroll up the page), taken by the workshop which replaced the thrust bearing assembly in the front struts of the 1979 Beta Coupe 2L, showing the old thrust bearing in its position and the replacement Lancia Beta Original NOS part components which includes the thrust (Torrington swivel) bearing, one thrust plate (washer) and a rubber dirt sealing ring.

The thrust bearing appears to sit in the front strut top mount with the needle rollers facing downwards in contact with the thrust plate (washer) which presumably sits on the top of the spring upper seat.

Have a look at the photos which should made things clearer.

HF Stuart made this comment in reply #2: "I've encountered two different types (of thrust bearings) on Beta front struts. They are similar but not interchangeable. The good news is I think the different top mount types are overall identical - even if the components aren't".

So bear that in mind too!

Andrew

[peteracs]

Hi

Ok, just dug out the ones I have sitting waiting to be cleaned and checked, I also thought I remembered two different styles when I put my Spider ones together many years ago…. As it happens of the four I have stripped this time, I do have the two styles and yes they are not interchangeable, but use the same strut parts.

Photos below show in the first one the same as above, where the bearing and its upper ‘washer’ clip into the top part of the strut, in the lower part is two parts, a washer with a flange which fits into lower part of the strut and a flat washer which fits just below the bearing. This flat washer appears to be retained by the rubber seal. When you strip the strut it is not always obvious this lower part is detachable. Note the bearing is retained by the upper ‘washer’ and does not look simple to extract or replace, so simply buying the bearing may not be a practical solution.

The second photo shows the second type, where the bearing is retained by the the lower washer which also has a flange to fit the lower part of the strut. This one you can simply lift the bearing out of the lower washer. The upper washer is a simple one and is retained when assembled by the small flange on the lower washer. Provided the lower washer surfaces are ok, this is the simpler of the two to refurbish/replace. The first one will need some playing around with to see if practical to. My thoughts are give them a good clean and see how smooth they are and leave well alone given all we are looking for is a smooth and resistance free movement of the strut.

One last thing to note is that the rubber seals are slightly different for the two types, however I think you could use them interchangeably if you needed to.

Peter