Spider refurbishment

[HFStuart]

Car-tilter (tm) coming along nicely!



I just need some bits of angle to link the legs together and I may look at making it telescopic.

Total cost £120 so far.

[Rob Mac]

Looks like you're winning with your Spider refurbishment  . How long have you been working on her?

[mangocrazy]

Wow Stuart - that's really impressive! I presume that's box section steel that is bolted (welded?)to the engine stand? What are the points on the body shell that you've bolted to - are they the bumper mounting points? I presume the engine has been removed to lower the weight being rotated - can you rotate the car through a full 360 degrees without it scraping on the floor?

[HFStuart]

Rob,

I bought it in 2009 as a non-runner. It had been ziebarted when new some most of the car was solid a part from the front strut towers and the bottom of the A pillars which has succumbed due to lack of wheel arch liners. I'd just broken a very rotten Spider ( a bad buy) that had very good strut tops so they were swapped. I then drove if for until Summer 2015 doing a few engine mods along the way (  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AgCW5sUsl4 any excuse to plug that clip! ) before investigating a hole in the bottom of the B pillar that was a little larger than expected.

Though the car could have been got through another MOT I knew at some point it would have to come off the road for a full restoration - it was always a good ' 10 foot ' car - so that was the time to do it. Progress has been slow since but steady. The plan is to get it dipped in the next few months before welding and sorting a few bodges out.

Yep  - that's 25x50 box very securely bolted to the stands and to the bumper mounts. The engine was most definitely taken out first - no way would I trust it with the extra 200+kg in it. The subframe is left in place though as it adds quite a lot of strength to the front end. With the running gear off and the heavy stuff such as doors off the shell doesn't weight that much 3-400kg perhaps? It won't quite do a 360 yet but I have plans to make the uprights telescopic  - they only need to go up another 150mm or so.

[mangocrazy]

Full marks, anyway Stuart. I'm impressed - not only with the thought and work that's gone into it, but your bravery in tackling it and getting it this far. Obviously the lighter you can make the shell, the better as far as putting it on a rotisserie. It's certainly given me food for thought. Would a Spider shell be rigid enough to permit this kind of approach, do you think?

[peteracs]

Hi

Stuart's is a Spider.

Peter

[Rob Mac]

It may take a few years finish Stuart but you can't rush a decent restoration  . At least your Beta Spider is basically a solid shell (apart from the bottom of the B pillar) so you shouldn't have too much welding or fabrication to do (fingers crossed). Are you sure you want to acid dip the shell? I feel this is a really aggressive procedure as the acid can get trapped in box sections & cause these areas to rust from the inside out  . When you get the time could you put a few photos of your restoration up? Cheers, Rob

[HFStuart]

There are difference types of dip. I agree it's an area where you need to be careful.

I'd be wary of one that used ( for example ) hydrochloric acid to remove everything. The process I'm considering uses a pyrolysis  process to remove paint, filler oil underseal etc and then a phosphoric acid for the rust only.

It certainly isn't being rushed!! I feel a bit guilty for how little time I've spent on it. I sold my Alfa 916 GTV as it was a distraction but change of job and spending way too much time travelling for work have also taken their toll. I'll get to it though, it's too much fun to drive not to.

[HFStuart]

Strip down nearing completion.

I borrowed an oscillating saw, it was perfect for cutting through the bonding agent. I've found one small patch of rust in the surround (bonus) and the screen came out in one piece (double bonus)

[WestonE]

Hi Stuart

Keep going! Mine comes back from Envirostrip today for the final works and paint. So hopefully by mid August I have shinny sound painted car needing a lot of bits bolted on.

Cheers

Eric

[HFStuart]

That's one of two places I'm considering. I'll be very interested to hear what your experience of them is.

NB You may already be aware but the amount of lead that went into the spiders is amazing. Must be two kilos just on each B Pillar to roof join.

[HFStuart]

It's been a long time coming but I finally got the shell fully stripped of parts so it's off for pyrolysis and a phosphoric acid dip.





I'm quite impressed with the service and the van they sent to collect it. I shall look forward to seeing how much comes back.

[WestonE]

Hi Stuart

Very familiar as mine came back with some surprises which thankfully have no been repaired. Soon I get to see the lower half painted.

Good Luck

Eric

[johnb]

Look forward to seeing your and Eric's Spider on the road. We need for the NEC stand  Sounds possible for 2019. Good luck with the project.
Best
John

[HFStuart]

I got it back from it's acid bath on Thursday in the pouring rain. I didn't have a chance to have a decent look at it until yesterday and I'm really, really happy. I'd wondered whether it was worth the cost but what needs doing is do so much clearer including some areas I didn't know needed work. Its vindicated my choice to take it of the road in 2015 before it good too bad even though I could easly have got it through another MOT with a patch or two. Thank god all that Zeibart is now gone  - it did it's job but it's disgusting stuff to remove.

The body is largely really sound. There's quite a few minor jobs to sort but nothing huge. Mainly it's the ends of the sills, the bottom of the NS A Pillar the bottom of the rear 3/4 panels and the (badly designed) U channels new the sills and the floorpan. The biggest problem areas are where some bad repairs have been done previously. They must have used a ton of filler to cover one of the patches they'd crudely stuck on. The worst bit of the floor is under the centre crossmember on the NS.

The front edge of the bonnet is perfect with only the strengthening ribs at the back (where it sits on the rubber seal by the scuttle panel) a bit lacy. The Spider specific reinforcing sections under the sills are also very good (seriously thick metal here 2.0mm at least) and the inner & outer sills and the sandwich panel between them is also in great condition. The rear turrets at good, one repair is required on the OS one. The screen surround and scuttle are also in amazing condition.

Adjustable height tilter means I now have 360 deg rotation


A pillar base absent presumed missing


Crude boot floor repair


Massive patch slapped on its bum


Floor under the crossmember


The big question is what do I tackle first. I think I'm going to remove the centre crossmemember and deal with the floor up to about 1/2 way up the inner sills. Then I'll take off the outer sill and 3/4 panel on side at a time to give access to the other bits of the floor and the sill ends. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

[mangocrazy]

Hi Stuart, just browsing the forum and re-read this thread. How are thing progressing with the Spider? I was also very interested to know how you made your Car Tilter ™ telescopic? Is it something you can elongate the engine stands with a trolley jack or something more fiendishly complicated?

[HFStuart]

Slowly is the honest answer. Both lackof time and the complexity of the floor pan pressings is a challenge. The really complicated bits are under the cross member the front seats sit on. I'll post some more pics when I get a chance.

I made the tilter telescopic by cutting the tubes and welding in another tube inside. Then a couple of brackets some nuts and a length of studding to do the actual lifting. When it's in use it's secured by a bolt passing through holes in the inner and out box section.

I've a video of it that makes it a lot clearer - https://youtu.be/shVISSAAUeE

[mangocrazy]

Nice one Stuart, that has certainly given me some food for thought. I like the idea of using studding rather than hydraulics. Presumably the nut on the bottom welded bracket has no thread, so the studding just spins without driving anything? What size studding did you use? Can't tell exactly but I'm guessing about M16. And presumably for the 'inner' you used box section that was a good sliding fit inside the engine stand upright.

Nice and simple - just the way I like it.

Sorry to keep asking qusetions, but are the bumper mounts strong enough 'as is' to take the weight of the car, or did you beef them up in some way before bolting the box section to them? I realise that the weight of the car has been reduced substantially with the engine, doors, seats and suspension removed.

[HFStuart]

Correct, the bottom nut is drilled out. I actually used M12 but if I were doing it again I'd chose M16. Square thread would be the ideal choice but it's not that easy to find or as cheap. I did think about cannibalising a couple of scissor jacks for the screws but they wouldn't have given me enough lift.
 
I couldn't find a box section that was a great fit inside the other one so I got one around 2mm smaller and welded some thin strips to it to pack it out a little. That also meant I could put two parallel strips on one side of the inner piece so they avoided the weld seam on the inside of the outer piece which stick out a little proud and otherwise caused sticking.

So long as the sills are OK and you put the front subframe in place the bumper mounts are fine. I may brace the body when I do the sills.

[mangocrazy]

Excellent stuff and very helpful. Thanks Stuart.