Which is the best twin carb set up for a series one 1600 coupe.

[betasulo]

 Hello Gents,
I do understand some of you run twin IDF or Twin DCOE carbs on your Betas. My question is what are the performance differences between these two types of carbs and what are the availability of intake manifolds like for the two types. Any info is highly appreciated .
Kind regards to all.
Sulo

[rossocorsa]

I suspect dcnf would be better than idf due to the different float orientation needed for transverse application, however I reckon most folks would want twin DCOE. No doubt an expert will be along shortly.

[HFStuart]

Most manifols for DCOE, DCNF or IDF on a Twin Cam are for a vertical installation of the engine. The rear tilt in the Beta means carbs on these manifolds will not be horizontal / vertical.

Alquati (and others ?) did do a DCNF manifold for the Montecarlo which might suit but they are pricey when they turn up.They also may not clear the block mounted distributor.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-BETA-MONTECARLO-ALQUATI-ABARTH-INLET-MANIFOLD-2-WEBER-DCNF-/261385258348?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item3cdbc6856c#ht_57wt_1275

Mangolesti list a DCNF manifold for the Beta though you may have to move the dizzy for this too. http://mangoletsimanifolds.com/manifolds/lancia.html

Guy croft does a DCOE manifold for the Beta with with right anle and the offset for the distributor. I'd suggest using that with twin 40 DCOE on a 1600.

I belive there is also a manifold for a single DCOE but I've never seen one.

[betasulo]

Thank you gentleman for the wealth of information. Now to start saving up and hope the wife chips in with an early birthday gift. 
Happy motoring to all.
Sulo

[betasulo]

Hello All,
I have just bought twin weber DCOE 40s in very good condition only to be told by Mr GC that his side draft manifold is for a 2lt engine. Guy says it fouls the starter on the 1600. I hope someone out there can offer a solution to this setback or is it possible to do a manifold in stainless steel?

Any of your thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Sulo

[rossocorsa]

I am guessing this will be due to the shorter block on a 1600? No experience myself but perhaps a smaller starter would help, I believe ie and vx starters are smaller but I don't know whether that would help or not

[peteracs]

Hi

So do you have the manifold as well as the carbs?

Would be interesting to see exactly how it fouls the starter, as stated above maybe the block height, though would have thought that it may be possible to resolve?

Peter

[HFStuart]

I can measure the clearance on my 2.0  - we know what the block height difference is so we will be able to see where the clash is.

From memory I don't recall it being that close

[betasulo]

I was about to place an order to GC and wanted to know the price of the manifold and it was then that he emailed me with the bad news. I wish I was back home and could check the car for my self. I just have the carbs and the air cleaners with me for the moment.

Thanks Stuart for offering to measure the block as that would be a great help and thank you gentlemen for your prompt replies.

Sulo.

[Alt.Clr]

Hi all,
i own a beta coupè 1600 last series and two years ago i was in your same situation (dcnf, dcoe, idf?)..at the end i opted for a pair of dcnf 40 mounted on a magolesti mainfold.

Fitting was problem-free except for the distance of the distributor cap. A bit of smoothing of the lower end of the 1st cilinder duct of the mainfold solved the problem.

Switching to an electric fuel pump was mandatory too, as the standard mechanical one doesen't fit anymore once the carbs and mainfold are in place. I don't know if it's the same with dcoe setup but i strongly suspect so.

Whether the twin carb setup you choose, i strongly suggest you to change the ignition system. Even if my beta was already fitted by lancia with electronic ignition (bosch unit if i remember well) i switch to a capacitive electronic ignition system (MSD 6A). Advantages are a significantly lowered sustainable idle sped and a noticeably smoother power delivery at low-mid rpm.
If your beta is fitted with the point ignition system changes should be even more noticeable.

regards

Alberto

p.s: sorry for my english, it's not my native language

[peteracs]

p.s: sorry for my english, it's not my native language

Hi Alberto

I would say your english is pretty damn good, so absolutely no need to apologise.

I would appreciate a photo(s) of your carb installation as I guess there is more than one interested party here which includes me.

Is the Mangoletsi still available?

Are the any known comments from Guy C about how good/bad it is?

Lastly on the MSD, what do you use to trigger the MSD system?

Peter

[betasulo]

Hi Alberto,

As Peter says your English is pretty good. I would really like to fit the DCOE carbs to my car as they are in very good condition. I also want to change the old points ignition to electronic and add a stainless steel exhaust with 4 into 2 pipes. It appears there are no Mangoletsi dealers in Australia and the closest one is in New Zealand.

Please kindly send photos of your set up.

Sulo

[Alt.Clr]

Hi all,

as some of you ask for photos today i took some pictures of my beta. Light is not optimal as i had to shoot inside the garage where the car is stored. It's two months that a problem with the front right wheel hub prevents me to move the car.






as you can see from the ride height i didn't work only on the engine side but also on the suspension. That means lowered and stiffened betaboyz springs, spax adjustable shock and betaboyz polybush all around.

Is the Mangoletsi still available?

I bought it two years ago online from Rally Design in Kent, if you check their website it's till available http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/ (and for much less than two years ago).

The MSD is triggered directly from the distributor. As my beta is a last series one fitted with eletronic ignition the original distributor has it's own magnetic pickup. No need of a cranck wheel triggered pickup in this case.

Here is the MSD installation scheme for reference.









Air filter is a doomed Pipercros PX 500 element with is own mounting plate. Crankase breather goes inside the filter.

Fuel pressure regulator is the usual Malpassi Filter King.

Fuel pump is a Facet Silver Top mounted under the rear crossmember link.

Are the any known comments from Guy C about how good/bad it is?

There's really scarce literature around dcnf carbs in general. Guy Croft book just mentions two case of dcnf setup on TC engines but never makes a comparison with dcoe setup. Even informations about jetting are pratically non-exsistent. There's just one case in Guy C of jetting on a deeply modified 2000 TC mounted on a Beta with double 42 dcnf setup, but is not suitable for a 1600 with 40 dcnf and milder tuning (way too rich). 






Here is the CSC 4-2-1 exhaust mainfold heat wrapped. Mandatory modification if you switch to twin carb setup. Exist also a replica of the rally factory 4-1 exhaust mainfold made by this crazy guys in germany http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/parts.php?dzial=LANCIA%20BETA%20COUPE%20/%20MONTE%20CARLO that should work even better, but it cost way too much.

 




Lastly i fitted two guarded switch for ignition and fuel pump.

regards

Alberto

[spud]

Hello All,
I have just bought twin weber DCOE 40s in very good condition only to be told by Mr GC that his side draft manifold is for a 2lt engine. Guy says it fouls the starter on the 1600. I hope someone out there can offer a solution...
Sulo

Don't know if this is physically smaller or not but if it is it may be a solution:
http://www.cambridgemotorsport.com/Lancia-Beta-Starter-motor

Andrew.

[betasulo]

Hi Alberto,
Thanks for the great photos. You have a very good set up in the engine bay. I will definitely get electronic ignition. Your car looks very impressive with the lowered suspension and one more item to put on my wish list.
I will have to work out what to do about the carbs.

Andrew,
Thanks for the link on the starter as well. I will see if it will work for me.

Sulo