Beta Top Water Rail - what specification for remanufacture?

[GerardJPC]

I now have one of these spare.  You can buy them from South Africa. 

[rossocorsa]

New or used? Mild or stainless? Early or late head gasket friendly vx style? More importantly what price and where from (felix?)?

[GerardJPC]

I got a black painted mild steel one for my 1300 from Felix.  I will have to check what I paid, but it wasn't much. 

[GerardJPC]

371 rand, approx £22, plus shipping from SA.

[rossocorsa]

second hand I presume?

[arguti]

371 rand, approx £22, plus shipping from SA.

If new, please pm me any re any relevant details as trying to ship,a car or two from Cape town and quite happy to throw some spares in the boot As I also need some bits and pieces !

Thanks stephen

[GerardJPC]

It looks new, but may just have had a coat of paint.  It's on the car now.

[betabuoy]

Did GB Engineering ever produce a new water rail?

Good second hand items now appear almost impossible to source and I’m wondering if I need to go for a bespoke option (for the lower rail at least).

Chris

[rossocorsa]

Did GB Engineering ever produce a new water rail?

Good second hand items now appear almost impossible to source and I’m wondering if I need to go for a bespoke option (for the lower rail at least).

Chris

I don't know if anyone has made any, best spec is the volumex one with the extra outlet to relieve pressure in the head (top rail).

[betabuoy]

Thanks Stuart.  I spoke with GCRE earlier today and he is working with his team to look at some manufacturing options for both water rails.  I'll keep you posted but I might be looking for some betaboyz support along the lines of the intended 'group buy' (albeit small numbers) rather than me just going it alone... otherwise I can see this being rather expensive!

Chris

[mangocrazy]

Hi, It's been a long while since I've posted about this, and there was a misunderstanding between myself and GB Engineering. I was under the impression he was going to research it and get back to me (I sent him 3 different types of top water rails), he was under the impression I was going to chase up certain aspects of the design and get back to him. The upshot was that he skipped the 3 rails I sent to him, being under the impression I'd lost interest. The problems of doing business at a distance of 150 miles+.

However I have been speaking to some local Sheffield engineering firms, and need to take down examples for them to inspect and (hopefully) copy. Earlier on we were talking about having multiple options for the top rail - quite frankly I think that is madness. We need to agree on one variant and move forward with that. My preference would be the Volumex top rail, bit with the the extra outlet to the OS thermostat deleted, and use an in-head 'stat. If Guy is looking at remanufacture then that's all to the good, in my book. The more people that are working on a solution, the better.

[betabuoy]

If Guy is looking at remanufacture then that's all to the good, in my book. The more people that are working on a solution, the better.

Agreed.  But we should probably commit to whoever comes up with a good solution first.  It’ll probably take a minimum order of 10 to make it cost effective and demand is fairly limited.

[rossocorsa]

There is one snag with the volumex style top rail with in head stat in that the extra coolant connection bypasses the in head stat......
Mine has been modified before I realised the error, if I ever get the engine back in the car I'll find out if it's such a catastrophy or not

[WestonE]

Alan

No problem and if concerned you just turn the heater off. I also have an in head VX top Rail.

Eric 

[rossocorsa]

Alan

No problem and if concerned you just turn the heater off. I also have an in head VX top Rail.

Eric 

Yes I realise it's kind of not a big deal but although I'm not sure that the greater makes any difference? The bypass is from head to to pipe is it not? Really just mentioned it as it may bother done people perhaps better to make both in head and standard stat variations

[DeXiTroN]

I have a few very good condition water rails. .Pm me .

[chrisc]

Bit of a necro post sorry, does anyone have a decent top water rail for a carb model? mine is toast. Failing that, has anyone had any success with blasting / welding up and powder coating?

[SubGothius]

Another necro followup to this thread. First-time poster here, but many of you may recognize me (Tyson F Nuss) from the various Beta FB groups or the Lancisti forum for many years now.

Did this project ever come to fruition? There's been some discussion about it in the Lancia Beta Appreciation Society FB group lately.

Having read through this thread to catch up, this point stood out to me:

There is one snag with the volumex style top rail with in head stat in that the extra coolant connection bypasses the in head stat......
Mine has been modified before I realised the error, if I ever get the engine back in the car I'll find out if it's such a catastrophy or not

Indeed, combining an in-head thermostat converson with the extra VX barb at #4 cylinder would greatly slow warm-up, as the VX barb would be acting as a bypass to the T-stat. Simply shutting off the heater would not be a solution, as this bypass would not merely feed to the heater; it feeds into the main upper coolant pipe to the radiator, which would normally be blocked by the stock in-line T-stat until it warms up.

However, I may have a solution. That bypass would negate the need for a bypass hole in/at the T-stat itself, and the VX barb could possibly be attached with only a small hole in the main coolant pipe instead, which could be drilled larger by owners wishing to retain a stock in-line T-stat setup.

Another option would be nixing the extra VX barb, and instead have the same function served by replacing the stock heater valve, which only blocks flow, with a diverter valve that has an extra barb to continue routing coolant from the head to the water pump when the heater is shut off.

I agree with mangocrazy that producing multiple variations seems like madness, so IMO producing an all-in-wonder version would be ideal, including the sensor bungs for i.e. models which could be simply plugged with a short bolt for carb'd models.

[mangocrazy]

Hi Tyson, the saga of a replacement for (and the correct specification of) the OE Beta top water rail has more twists and turns than a twisty, turny thing... Just when I thought I'd got a definite solution for the top rail, Ian (squiglyzigly of this parish) threw a bit of a curve ball with this post:

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4074.msg27308#msg27308

Everything he says makes complete sense and he basically agrees entirely with your view of the in-head thermostat. When my rebuilt engine finally goes into the car it will have the outboard thermostat mentioned later in the thread.

But I suspect we are still as far away as we ever were in trying to nail down the spec for a 'one size fits all' top water rail...

[rossocorsa]

I have gone back to the standard stat on mine , I had a stainless upper and lower pipes made overseas by a guy off Facebook but I'm not sure that he's still doing them. I have a VX and he put in the extra connections as best as he could but there were problems with both pipes as the top one wouldn't clear the VX air box and the bottom one literally wouldn't go on. This is despite it fitting his own engine fine. He made another set and they fitted but the bottom pipe was incredibly tight it was a real struggle to get it on. Also note that on the lower pipe some have two outlets on the bend near the water pump but others only have one and then a separate Y section to split that feed. The difficulty with fit suggests to me that these pipes aren't as absolutely the same size as we all think.
I imagine a new original thermostat will last a few years so I just kept trawling eBay until I found two at a lower than usual price one to use and one in hand. One of those days I might actually try it out in a fully running car but presently it's still work in slow progress