Where to get the gear?!

[Shep]

Hey guys,
So fairly new to the beta life and unlike other projects, lancia are alot harder to get hold of bits!

So can anyone suggest anywhere that i can get a set of lowering springs for my beta coupe 2.0? I bought some through LK performance (ridiculously cheap £67 for 4) but were outta stock despite what was said on the site.  I tried betaboyz but they were out of stock as well.... So if anyone knows of any better sites?

Also would like to upgrade my steering wheel for something a bit sportier but not sure on the boss i would need? I found this one http://www.lkperformance.co.uk/steering-wheel-boss-kits/ektor/ektor-steering-wheel-boss-kit/336662?carId=266438 but dont know if it would fit OR what steering wheels would fit?  So any help appreciated?

Cheers, Shep

[markwast]

Hi Shep
Im looking at doing another batch of springs having had a few more people interested,
If i can get one or two sets added to these inquiries then i can and will.

What spec do you think you would want.

If anyone else wants a set, please PM me or contact via LanciaBetaParts website.

Mark

[HFStuart]

Mark,

I'm thinking about having a set made up for my Spider - slightly uprated (10-15%) over the originals and slightly lower. Nothing too extreme. So I might be interested. What ratings were the previous batch made to?

BTW I'm sending two pairs of old springs off to be tested to see if they've gone soft or not - still trying to work out why my Spider sits tail down and this will tell me if it's the springs.

[markwast]

With regard boss kit, i have one by extor , not tested yet. But i tried to get some more but told it was no longer available, things might have changed now. Worth checking.

Mark

[markwast]

Stuart,
For some reason, both coupe and spider sit with a sagging ass,
we found even with the new springs, cars hd a saggy bum.

We were having springs made that were lowered by 30mm and uprated by 25% ,
not looking to spec to stop saggy bum, front lowered 30mm-35mm uprated 10% , rear lowered 20mm uprated 15% .

Mark

[Shep]

Cheers for the help yes i would be interested in 30mm lowering and 25% uprated. How long would it take? I understand its going to take a while as you need more interest, its just that i have a broken coil spring and shes up for mot. No pressure though    lol. She still needs work doing to her so i dont mind waiting a while.
Cheers, Shep

[rossocorsa]

Hey guys,
So fairly new to the beta life and unlike other projects, lancia are alot harder to get hold of bits!

So can anyone suggest anywhere that i can get a set of lowering springs for my beta coupe 2.0? I bought some through LK performance (ridiculously cheap £67 for 4) but were outta stock despite what was said on the site.  I tried betaboyz but they were out of stock as well.... So if anyone knows of any better sites?

Also would like to upgrade my steering wheel for something a bit sportier but not sure on the boss i would need? I found this one http://www.lkperformance.co.uk/steering-wheel-boss-kits/ektor/ektor-steering-wheel-boss-kit/336662?carId=266438 but dont know if it would fit OR what steering wheels would fit?  So any help appreciated?

Cheers, Shep

jamex springs for beta were discontinued some time ago, or at least they say they have no intentions to make another batch

[rossocorsa]

Stuart,
For some reason, both coupe and spider sit with a sagging ass,
we found even with the new springs, cars hd a saggy bum.

We were having springs made that were lowered by 30mm and uprated by 25% ,
not looking to spec to stop saggy bum, front lowered 30mm-35mm uprated 10% , rear lowered 20mm uprated 15% .

Mark

Hi Mark

You will be kind of bored by my wandering thoughts on this subject by now! The more I think about it the more I am not convinced about the idea of lowering significantly more at the front than rear but I would agree that the rear should not be lowered a lot and that 20mm is probably sensible. Hopefully that might also avoid the dislocating spring problems that haunts 35mm drop springs. I am sure most folk on here don't want extreme looks at the expense of driving quality so maybe 20 drop all around or 25 front/20 rear with a suitable small increase in rate?

Alan

[HFStuart]

Stuart,
For some reason, both coupe and spider sit with a sagging ass,
we found even with the new springs, cars hd a saggy bum.

I know and it's odd since as far as you can tell from pictures etc they didn't when new. The effect on mine is quite extreme - if I had gas shocks I could understand it  - but I don't.

I've persuaded a supplier to test them FOC for me - I'll be interested to see the results. Comparing them to the compressed lengths on the car should allow me to work out the static loads on them and see whether it's by design or if the springs have gone off.

[markwast]

I can get a small batch of springs made, 4  sets would be 135 per set and if 5 sets or more would be 125 per set. That is saving of 10 to 20 pounds over my normal price.


Just need to decide on spec.


Mark

[Shep]

Cheers Mark! Well count me in for a set! As for the spec...... I think ill leave that one to the pros 

[HFStuart]

My springs have now been tested. They were in pretty average condition - nothing special. These are coupe / spider / HPE front springs ans coupe / spider rears.

Fronts 85lb/in data manual says 88
Rear 110lb/in data manual says 108

So even after 30 years they are still pretty much spot on. Which is a pain as I was hoping the rears would show up as soft.

On friday i've got the car going on corner weight scales to get the axle loads - well see what that shows up!

[WestonE]

Stuart

When trying to figure out the saggy bum behaviour look very closely at the pre-load on the rear compared to the front i.e. how long is the push rod on the rear strut compared to free spring length. I have shortened the rear strut piston rod by an inch in the past really to dial out squat under power where the back sits down and the front rises and the front tyres spin away the grip. What I am hinting at is spring rate in practice is hugely influenced by pre-load so the front springs have a lot of pre-load i.e. stored energy resisting first movement hence the front can be front propped and the back sagged or it looks that way because the hugely long front springs are propping the front.

Also when you lower a car you uprate the springs (20-30%) to offer more resistance to bottoming out and these spring are shorter to start with particularly at the front so the pre-load in balance is reduced. On Betas it is common with shorter/lowered  springs to need shorter push rods on the back fortunately Mark W's Spax inserts have shorter rear push rods which is great. 

Eric
PS Even more fun when you start messing around with coil overs and corner weights.

[HFStuart]

Eric,

This is a theory I've heard before and to be honest I'm a bit sceptical. If it works then great - but I'm not sure how it does.

Increasing the preload on the spring can't have any effect on spring rates unless the preload is greater than the static load on the spring - in which case the spring rate is effectivley infinite until dynamic load plus the static load exceeds the preload. Once the loads are greater than the preload the spring rate is exactly what it was before. ie a 100lb spring will be 3 inches shorter than free length at a 300lb load whether the preload is 100lb or 200lb. So unless the damper is at full extension with only static loads then I can't see how squat at the rear is reduced. In that condition I'd also have thought you'd have a very harsh ride and no droop at all.

What I can see happening is that more preload at the front limits the amount of droop and hence the front end lift under acceleration if the damper was getting to or close to full extension before hand.  That could well improve traction.

Obviously shorter, stiffer springs will help as will dampers stiff on rebound at the front and on bump at the rear

Interested to hear what people think on this.

[rossocorsa]

I am still inclined to believe this is at least partly down to component wear Steve Thompson's little worn VX doesn't seem to suffer greatly from the speed boat effect and is completely standard, my VX did (although it's so long ago when it was last on the road I don't recall too well) mainly because the dampers were shot, they seemed to firm up after a few miles and once they pumped themselves up the effect diminished. There must be many physical factors involved not just the springs, bad engine mountings must have some effect as they will allow the heavy engine/transmission to sway more severely causing more severe weight transfer with two mini dampers three rubber mounts and the dog bone Lancia went to a lot of effort to stabilise this.
Incidentally anyone know a suitable substitute for the mini dampers all mine are shot or nearly shot   

[HFStuart]

Stuart,
For some reason, both coupe and spider sit with a sagging ass,
we found even with the new springs, cars hd a saggy bum.

We were having springs made that were lowered by 30mm and uprated by 25% ,
not looking to spec to stop saggy bum, front lowered 30mm-35mm uprated 10% , rear lowered 20mm uprated 15% .

Mark

Mark,

That would look about right but given the rear springs are already harder than the fronts would it not be better to uprate them by the same amount or the fronts slightly more than the rears?

What was the feedback on the 25% uprated springs? Not hard enough, about right or too hard?

[rossocorsa]

not sure if this makes sense or not but can the uprating not be calculated by a spring specialist so that in effect the shorter springs meet the bump stop at the same compression force as the standard longer springs?

[HFStuart]

Yes  - that's simple enough to do.

[droptop]

I got a boss from an e-bay store for a 128 3P which needed a little modification using the horn slipring off the original Beta wheel which can be reused on the original if and when you want.
Cost was £16-95 plus shipping of around £8.
Fitted well with no real issues and suits 70mm PCD wheels such as Momo, Sparco, etc.
The post should be in the "parts wanted" section if you want to trawl through it and there are more details there.
I would be interested in lowering springs for my spyder too.
Maybe 40-50 mm front and 25mm rear as mine has that high front stance too.
I just got a pair of refurbished front struts with NOS bilstein Sport inserts and am putting off fitting until I can change the springs.
Back struts look to be a bit more hardship than the fronts on the spyder with having to remove the soft top to access the mounts, or am I mistaken?

[markwast]

Stuart,
For some reason, both coupe and spider sit with a sagging ass,
we found even with the new springs, cars hd a saggy bum.

We were having springs made that were lowered by 30mm and uprated by 25% ,
not looking to spec to stop saggy bum, front lowered 30mm-35mm uprated 10% , rear lowered 20mm uprated 15% .

Mark

Mark,

That would look about right but given the rear springs are already harder than the fronts would it not be better to uprate them by the same amount or the fronts slightly more than the rears?

What was the feedback on the 25% uprated springs? Not hard enough, about right or too hard?

Hi Stuart
The 25%  uprated spring are firm to say the least but comfortable.... Tony's coupe still had a saggy bum though with that spec, and feedback suggests the same. Also the bum seems lower than it should be as a consequence.

that's the thinking towards the new spec...

Mark