WHY DO LANCIA S RUST

[Leo HPE 1979]

I WANT TO START THIS TOPIC FOR HISTORY REASONS.

[Leo HPE 1979]

HERE IS A PICTURE OF THE FACTORY IN CHIVASSO WHERE ALL OUR LANCIA S WHERE BUILD.
Ing. Pesenti opened the factory in 1962, he builded it for the Fulvia production, specifically.
The ground was 1.488.000 yd2 and 276.000 yd2 the buildings. Every parts of the cars were produced in Chivasso with the exception of engines and gears. They were produced in the factory of Verrone, near Biella. The two big white buildings in the photo are the press, the coachwork, the assembly and the paint sections. The little one is the tyres section. In the left side there is the testing section and in front of it there is the test track, 2.6 miles long. Part of the test track was in asphalt, pavement and french pavè to test cars in all driving conditions. There was a flooded part too and a climb, with a 30% gradient to test the clutch. Further on, the parking area for the new vehicles and the binaries (not in this photo). The factory was connected with the Chivasso railway station. In the right side there are all the general services: the officies, the mainteneance squads, the purify water sistem, the electrical power station and the fire extinguisher squads. 5000 people worked here, they produced from 500 to 1200 cars a day. The factory closed in 1993 and the Dedra was the last model produced.

On your right there are 3 big buildings.
In the back there are offices, mechanical workshops and stores.
In the middle there is the assembly building
The buiding In the front used to be the hand paintshop  until mid 1978. later it became tyre section
The left buiding is the newer automatic paintshop.         opened november 1978
Notice that there is a bridge over the street between the buildings.

[Leo HPE 1979]

The paint shop of Chivasso desperately needed to be modernized in the late seventies as the manual painting procedure did not always go as planned. The supply of paintwork towards a by-employees-operated flexible arm was not always cleaned like it should’ve been which resulted in several cars needing a repaint after they’d been examined. It is the reason why Betas sometimes used to differ in color, even though they were theoretically identical. Due to the definite closure of the paint shop in the old Fiat-plant in Lingotto, a new and entirely robotized one was installed in Chivasso. This not only resulted in a strong increase in quality, but also better working conditions.
)that was a qout)

So in 1978 the new automatic painting started. in the rightside building, but due to severe strikes, the bridge between the buildings was not yet ready. So in the winter of 1978/1979 all unsprayed cars had too be first taken to a parkinglot outside and it is told that especialy RHD cars stood there UNSPRAYED for weeks.

Zincplated sheetmetal came later, say 1982

[Leo HPE 1979]

You should have regrets, America. But Italy, it's your fault as well. A car with pretty, if somewhat quirky styling, a lusty dohc engine and supple ride and handling should have found greater favor. But by 1982 the Italian automobile industry in America was limping with self-inflicted bullet holes in both feet. The Lancia Zagato was just one victim.

The Zagato was a variation of the Lancia Beta family, the first model developed after Fiat's takeover in 1969. It was not, as some feared, a Fiat in drag but an all-new chassis, with strut-type suspension front and rear and a multilink lower rear arrangement.

Lancia's narrow V4 engine, however, was replaced by versions of Fiat's inline dohc unit, originally designed under Aurelio Lampredi of Ferrari V12 fame. Front-wheel drive, which had become a Lancia trademark, was retained, with the transverse engine ahead of the front axle. A homely two-box, four-door sedan debuted in 1972, followed by a slinky coupe in 1974. An "estate" version, the HPE, also was made.

Pininfarina modified the Beta Coupe for the '74 Geneva show debut. Although details differed forward of the A-pillars and in the rear fender and trunk lines, the big change was to the roof. A lift-off hard center section and a fold-down fabric "convertible" rear with a plastic backlight yielded a targa-type roofline, a concession to '70s safety-think in lieu of a full convertible. Pininfarina built the Coupe for Lancia, but the limited-production Spider would only get in the way at Pininfarina's Chivasso factory. Therefore, complete, unpainted Coupe bodyshells were transported 70 miles to Milan and modified by Zagato. These were returned to Pininfarina for anti-corrosion treatment, then to Zagato for painting and interior and finally back to Chivasso for the engine and transmission! No wonder it would cost $1,300 more than the Coupe.

Shortly after introduction a second-generation Spider added reinforcing struts above the doors, and fully framed windows, and made a 2.0-liter version of the dohc four avail- able. A facelift followed in '78. It was this version Lancia brought to the United States in '79, calling it the Lancia Zagato for a hint of the exotic. Its smog-controlled 1995-cc engine made a mere 83 hp but managed to propel the 2700-pound car through the quarter-mile in 19 seconds. Road & Track found the Zagato "a tremendous amount of fun to drive." Not a surprise, however, were a lot of niggling faults in the trim.

A bigger change arrived for 1981. Lancias were not officially imported to the United States in 1980, but they returned in '81 with Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection. Horsepower rose to 108, torque to 114 lb-ft.

It made a tremendous differ-ence, knocking 1.5 second off the car's 0-to-60-mph time. AutoWeek called it "a sports car [whose] driveability quotient ranks fairly high" (May 11, 1981). The engine was "silky smooth" and handling "quite predictable and forgiving," though the power steering was "a bit too loose and desensitized."

Almost 20 years later, we can't fault that original evaluation. Jim Keller of Marion, Ohio, found a rust-free 1982 Zagato and even buffed the original paint back to life.

Today its seats are softer than a Sophia Loren embrace (well, we can imagine.|.|.) and have excellent lateral support. The shifter for the five-speed box is rubbery and imprecise at first, but treat it with respect and the gears will come. The engine is not only smooth, but it's torquey down low and loves to rev. It's redlined at 6500, but the speedo has a Claybrook-inspired 85-mph dial. How do you say "ludicrous" in Italian? Maybe like you say "back seat" in English. The Zagato's might be comfortable-if you had no legs.

The Zagato's handsome profile turns heads today, in part due to its scarcity. Only 9600 were built, with about 2100 coming stateside. In 1982, Lancia's last year in the States, 764 were sold. "Delightful" wasn't enough. Priced at more than $13,000 it was "closer to an Alfa Spider Veloce than [to] a Fiat Spider 2000, but somehow we feel its value more closely approximates the Fiat." Other Z cars, the Nissan 280ZX and Chev- rolet Camaro Z28, were faster, sturdier and cheaper-but not as sophisticated. So the regret stings. We went for the flash and glitter and reliability. And missed the Lancia Zagato. Shame on us. Shame on Italy.


This was published in 2000

[Neil-yaj396]

Standing outside unpainted in the Italian climate would not have caused the rust problem on the early saloons. Wasn't it down to a structural weakness around the sub frame mounting points?

Beyond that, as we now know, Betas rust no more, or perhaps less, that their 1970s contemporaries.....

[WestonTB]

Only True Beauty Doth Have Decay... or something along those lines!   
We all know the (Russian) steel was not good, FIAT should have checked this closer, the rest is history and thank the Lord for decent paint, Dinitrol and Hammerite products, simples really

So many of our cars are superb after all these years, I reckon if we have made it this far the next 45 years will be easy!!!
My car had new inner and outer sill's, along with inner and outer rear archers in 2002 and some of you have seen how bad my DIY paint job is, honestly, I really have to look for rust and the five out of ten paint job makes home repairs easy.

That said ignorance is never bliss with poor steel so I'am watching closely!

[rossocorsa]

Hmmm not entirely sure of all the legends, if Russian steel was really the reason how do you explain the occasional early Beta with no rust and old NOS panels also in one piece. Also despite the focus on Lancia by dear old Ester Rantzen and the wonderful Daily Mirror really pretty much all makes had an issue in the 60s and 70s some a bit better but all succumbing to rust inside a relatively short period. Earlier cars didn't suffer because, for a start, there was no MOT and secondly the move towards monocoque style construction had led to lighter structures made from  much thinner steel, however at the time manufacturers didn't think hard enough about reducing dirt traps that in turn led to rust traps. Early betas had an unfortunate issue where water could accumulate in the box sections that supported the front sub-frame rear most mountings (tales are that mechanics at Lancia garages could sometimes hear water sloshing around during test drives). Lancia apparently recognised this issue quite early on modifying the mountings accordingly and later careful attention to reducing rust traps including the adoption of plastic wheel arch liners cut back a lot of other issues. Overall I really don't think Lancia Betas were any worse than Fords, Japanese or BLMC products of the time, huge numbers of Datsuns in particular were sold in the early 70s/80s, now they are rarer than hens teeth!
Just my opinion right or wrong............         

[megaera]

Overall I really don't think Lancia Betas were any worse than Fords, Japanese or BLMC products of the time, huge numbers of Datsuns in particular were sold in the early 70s/80s, now they are rarer than hens teeth!
Just my opinion right or wrong............         

Well said.

[HFStuart]

Overall I really don't think Lancia Betas were any worse than Fords, Japanese or BLMC products of the time, huge numbers of Datsuns in particular were sold in the early 70s/80s, now they are rarer than hens teeth!
Just my opinion right or wrong............         

Right I think. There were as few exceptions such as Chevettes and Allegros that didn't rust as badly, more by accident than design I suspect. But Japanese stuff used to rust on the boat on the way over and even up market cars like Jags used to rust quickly. Fords still did up to about 2000  - Pumas and Kas in particular.

[smithymc]

Mercedes were still struggling to stop cars rusting into the new century with e- class rear wheel arches and the first series SLK boot lids and arches both ended up with friends cars being painted under warranty to about 53 reg. Why, I have no idea.

Just looking at a contemporary road test, the coupes rivals are listed as Alfasud Sprint, Fiat 128 3P, Capri 2.0 s, Renault 15 GTL, Cavalier 2.0S. We were not alone!

I too have always been sceptical about the dodgy steel argument. Steel wants to rust for the moments it is created, end of.

Have a great holiday all and happy new year.

Mark

[RichB]

My mum's Metro had the floor welded within 4 years, our Cortina was rusty; the minivan has a see through floor. Virtually all 70's cars rusted. When I look underneath my Beta I can find handfuls of mud inside all of the bodywork (and rust) as there are no arch liners or waxoyl. The mention of the new paint plant and the cars unpainted doesn't explain earlier cars or Alfasuds which were even worse as I recall. My Audi A4 is the only car I have owned that appears rust free at more than 10 years old. Quite a few newer cars have issues - E class mercs and Alfa 159s.

[rossocorsa]

To be fair steel quality does have some bearing on how fast it rusts once exposed but IMHO it can't be the over riding reason for corrosion issues. My dad had three Alfasuds from new, despite their reputation I don't think they were quite as terrible as their reputation, lack of wheel arch liners, strange design decisions and poor paint application were the enemies, he had the last one  for about three years without structural corrosion when it was traded in.

[HFStuart]

I think Peugeot were one of the first to properly crack it. You'd very rarely see a rusty 205  - even now they're 30+ they are more likely to have localised repair than a full on restoration - something like a Sierra of the same vintage was just one big meal for the tin worm.

[rossocorsa]

I think Peugeot were one of the first to properly crack it. You'd very rarely see a rusty 205  - even now they're 30+ they are more likely to have localised repair than a full on restoration - something like a Sierra of the same vintage was just one big meal for the tin worm.

Peugeot in the 60s 70s were very well finished, I think that was a good starting point as any misapplication of the surface finishes would let the oxygen and moisture in.

[RichB]

We have a Saxo - 500 quids worth, bought to get my daughter to college and kept now as a back up car. It's 15 years old and no rust despite a complete lack of maintenance. The KAs and festas of the same vintage we have had - son was an apprentice mechanic at a Ford dealer, have all been rot boxes, despite driving well. I notice 206s appear rust free. I drove a 504 in the 80's belonging to a friend's dad and it was a lovely car to drive. Maybe the lancia rust issue was a combination of all of these problems?

[Leo HPE 1979]

I found this article today about 300 coupes refurbished by ASTON MARTIN in 1981.
Does anyone know more, or even own such a car

[rossocorsa]

Very few left, I suspect they were made from cars that had cosmetic issues due to bad and extended storage, hence the repainted wheels and Stripes, so they had in built corrosion from the start. They were probably at least two years old when converted.
I have my doubts that they did 300. Personally I think it was a very inelegant conversion and as the cars were in standard colours could look a bit odd, white or red probably looked the best.

Betas of this era actually didn't rust all that badly (at least relative to other makes at the time) and in the UK were subject to additional rust proofing upon arrival, the unsold cars were the result of the British media criticising Lancia when they bought back early cars, probably mostly from 73 to 75, that had issues with trapped water in the subframe mounting and hence corrosion. This was an issue long since cured by the time it was public.