Lancia Vs, Fiat block

[droptop]

Are there any differences between the lancia and Fiat blocks of similar capacity?
I know the cam boxes differ due to the different mounting angles requiring different locations for the oil return holes but regarding the blocks, I haven't any idea

[Neil-yaj396]

Take it you are talking about the transverse blocks (Fiat Croma, Strada etc.)? Obviously the in line blocks (124, 131 etc.) are different.

Any reason for asking?

[droptop]

Take it you are talking about the transverse blocks (Fiat Croma, Strada etc.)? Obviously the in line blocks (124, 131 etc.) are different.

Any reason for asking?

I'm referring to the Beta twincam vs. 131 twincam.
I'm asking as someone was on to me looking for a block for a 131 and I have a couple of Beta ones sitting in the workshop so of course the prospect of some funds towards my '79 resto reared its' head.....
I see from your reply that they're different so back to the drawing board, or "Wanted" ads

[lukasdeopalenica]

I am not really sure, but I think the only difference is the cast label (Lancia instead of Fiat) on the block side wall... I had also a 131 supermirafiori in the past so I remember they were pretty the same. For sure oil pumps and sumps are different.

[swedgamma]

Hi!!

There is a difference where the Lancia fwd have an attachment for the driveshaft vs the Fiat rwd has none!Heard that it is possible to modify and a Lancia block would fit a Fiat anyhow.Sump and probably oilpump differs.

Urban(swedgamma)

[Thotos]

I have both a Beta (Trevi) and a 131 with the 2-litre twin cam engine so I could compare...
The sumps are different so the oil pump pickup might be different but not sure.
The oil filter connector is different but that's a bolt-on part that can be changed although it doesn't make much difference I suppose.
I also know of a 131 with a Strada engine in it so the blocks from FWD transverse engine cars is probably the same as the RWD in-line engine cars.

[peteracs]

Hi

There are a few comments on this thread which may help, the most interesting is the ref to running a Strada engine in a 131 which I guess has a similar config in terms of gearbox to the Beta, but wonder if the engine mount points are the same due to the Beta being inclined.

Peter

[droptop]

I suppose we can assume components exclusive to either transverse or in-line mounting will differ but I suppose the mounting points are where the potential differences will be and potentially the bellhousing mounting as the later in-line (132) type engines in 1600 guise anyway went to a bigger flywheel and I know the earlier gearboxes won't mate with the later blocks.
I presume the lancia block and flywheel for any given capacity stayed the same for the normally aspirated engines throughout production life, or at least I've read nothing to the contrary.
I' will consult my G.C. engine manual for any mention as there is a lot of fine detail in it.
I'll try to find images of both blocks as well to compare mounting locations.
The actual mounting angle would be set via the type of mounting rather than different castings I imagine but maybe that's just wishful thinking at this point!
Thanks for all the advice and if I find a definitive answer then I'll update this post as it may prove useful to others

[lukasdeopalenica]

There is a difference where the Lancia fwd have an attachment for the driveshaft vs the Fiat rwd has none!

I am not really sure, but I think ( as far as I remember) the intermediate driveshaft housing is bolted to the same studs to where in RWD DOHC engines are bolted engine mountings...

[droptop]

There is a difference where the Lancia fwd have an attachment for the driveshaft vs the Fiat rwd has none!

I am not really sure, but I think ( as far as I remember) the intermediate driveshaft housing is bolted to the same studs to where in RWD DOHC engines are bolted engine mountings...

THAT would certainly put a damper on things!

[droptop]

Having read through the GC engine manual, I'm certain these blocks aren't interchangable.
As rightly said in reply to my post, the "upright" transverse twincams from the Strada, etc. can be used but the book omits to mention that the Beta blocks can.
By this omission and in light of the fact the Fiat engines are mentioned, I'm forced to conclude they are specific to the Beta.
Thanks for all the help but I'm forced to try and find Wifey a second job in ordre to pay for my project.

[swedgamma]

So I had finally some time for weekend fun,more specifically digging into a pile of old Lancia/Fiat engines!!Looking at a 131 engine,FIAT block,FIAT camcovers and a decal saying Fiat 131 2000 at the rear end of the cambox and more so,a 5speed rwd gearbox hooked up at the rear end,the FIAT engine mount is located about 6 inches from the rear end of the block.Comparing it with the 2 litre Lancia block I have in my engine stand,the engine mount holes are the same but it is definitely different in the front where the Lancia driveshaft is attached.
If the Lancia driveshaft attachment is not fouling something up with the alternator or something it would be no problem to use a Lancia block in a 131.
In my Guy Croft book(earlier edition)is does say the same.
I have had a friend(now sadly passed away),that being a Lancia man actually drove different Betas from`74  to `84 as everyday cars some 500.000 km !!!! He had the same opinion even if he would´nt ever installed a "FIAT"-marked block in his Lancia!!!
Now over to some more important issues........would you please share with the rest of us, how its possible to get ones wife to support such an important interest as old Lancia cars???
Urban(swedgamma)

[droptop]

So I had finally some time for weekend fun,more specifically digging into a pile of old Lancia/Fiat engines!!Looking at a 131 engine,FIAT block,FIAT camcovers and a decal saying Fiat 131 2000 at the rear end of the cambox and more so,a 5speed rwd gearbox hooked up at the rear end,the FIAT engine mount is located about 6 inches from the rear end of the block.Comparing it with the 2 litre Lancia block I have in my engine stand,the engine mount holes are the same but it is definitely different in the front where the Lancia driveshaft is attached.
If the Lancia driveshaft attachment is not fouling something up with the alternator or something it would be no problem to use a Lancia block in a 131.
In my Guy Croft book(earlier edition)is does say the same.
I have had a friend(now sadly passed away),that being a Lancia man actually drove different Betas from`74  to `84 as everyday cars some 500.000 km !!!! He had the same opinion even if he would´nt ever installed a "FIAT"-marked block in his Lancia!!!
Now over to some more important issues........would you please share with the rest of us, how its possible to get ones wife to support such an important interest as old Lancia cars???
Urban(swedgamma)

I have to admit she's a rare one (Wifey that is)
As long as her car starts and stops, has tax and insurance and our electricity doesn't get disconnected, she's happy!
We share a common perception that we're only visiting this rock for a few decades and why not enjoy our short sojourn?
Would you go on holidays for a couple of weeks and moan about the cost of the hotel, food, etc?
Well our liver are an extension of this ethos

[swedgamma]

Well spoken!!!!

Urban(swedgamma)