Head gasket oil leak

[carl59862]

My 1600 Coupe S1 has been dripping a small amount of oil for a while now. The time has come to get to the bottom of it and, having cleaned everything off, run the car, inspected and repeated, the inescapable fact is that oil is leaking from the head gasket at the back of the engine. Everything above this is dry, so I can't kid myself any further. There is no contamination to water / oil, it just appears to be leaking from an oil passageway out.

I don't have the skills to attempt this myself. My local workshop are prepared to tackle it and the owner is trustworthy. I'm just wondering if anyone else has suffered the same and did you use a specialist to do the job?

Any thoughts appreciated!

Carl

[WestonE]

Hi Carl

Head gasket failure was so common on the cars FL changed the head gasket design on IE & VX generation cars. Read the threads on the topic on here. Do NOT re-use the old head bolts Do tap the thread holes in the block clean and expect to have the head skimmed. Whilst you have the head off you might as well have new valve guides, oil stem seals and the valves cleaned up and re-lapped for better sealing.

Good Luck

Eric

[SanRemo78]

Is it worth having hardened seats inserted at the same time? I'll be embarking on a rebuild too as the head on my engine has one bent valve...

Guy

[peteracs]

I had always been told that the Beta engines were built with unleaded in mind?

Peter

[Neil-yaj396]

Are you sure that it isn't the rear head to cam box gasket that is leaking? That is a common fail and an easier fix.

[Neil-yaj396]

I had always been told that the Beta engines were built with unleaded in mind?

Peter

The Betas were sold in the USA, so had to be fully unleaded compliant from the mid 70's. A lot of the unleaded stories were guff anyway. I ran my Frogeye Sprite on unleaded for over 10 years with the odd squirt of Redex. Many said unleaded would destroy the valve seats within 1000 miles......

[WestonE]

Hi Guy

Unleaded Seat conversion is not needed on our engines. If you go for far larger valves of course you then use more modern seat material as GC did on my heads. But I do have 45mm inlet valves and a stupidly large supercharger!

Eric   

[Kevo]

Hi Guy

Unleaded Seat conversion is not needed on our engines. If you go for far larger valves of course you then use more modern seat material as GC did on my heads. But I do have 45mm inlet valves and a stupidly large supercharger!

Eric   

Hi Eric, are you saying I can ditch my valve master additive and just run it on hi Ron fuel. Would be great if I could.

[peteracs]

Hi

Yes, just use decent E5 would be my suggestion, Esso 99 for most of the country is ethanol free according to their website.

Only reason to suggest E5 is to counter the issues related to ethanol on the rubber parts in the fuel system.

Peter

[Kevo]

Thanks Peter, I mainly use Esso or Vpower in the Beta and my TR6.
Sorry for hijacking this post.
Cheers Kev.

[carl59862]

Are you sure that it isn't the rear head to cam box gasket that is leaking? That is a common fail and an easier fix.

Hi Neil, it is definitely not from the cam box. The only other thing I have read is a potential leak from 2 manifold bolts. I don't think it is this, but worth another lift on the ramp to look!

Carl

[WestonE]

Hi Carl

Oil where you are seeing it is classic head gasket failure but clean off the head of all oil then run it up to hot and see if the cambox base gaskets exhaust studs or cam box end gaskets are leaking.

Note when re-building the head be aware anything other than GC Cam base gaskets will need a THIN bead of RTV sealant or they will leak. Also the Exhaust studs that go into the oil ways need Loctite and use the late FL cam oil seals with rubber on the outers or use RTV on the outers of the cam oil seals. You can use Tipo Diesel head bolts with a Ribe socket but use the very best head gasket you can afford. Beware eBay bargain Head Gasket sets. If you can find an Astradur VX/ 130 TC head gasket use that. These gaskets bond better.

Eric

[carl59862]

Hi Carl

Oil where you are seeing it is classic head gasket failure but clean off the head of all oil then run it up to hot and see if the cambox base gaskets exhaust studs or cam box end gaskets are leaking.

Note when re-building the head be aware anything other than GC Cam base gaskets will need a THIN bead of RTV sealant or they will leak. Also the Exhaust studs that go into the oil ways need Loctite and use the late FL cam oil seals with rubber on the outers or use RTV on the outers of the cam oil seals. You can use Tipo Diesel head bolts with a Ribe socket but use the very best head gasket you can afford. Beware eBay bargain Head Gasket sets. If you can find an Astradur VX/ 130 TC head gasket use that. These gaskets bond better.

Eric

Thanks for the solid advice Eric. I've already cleaned everything off and run the car for a few miles. The leak is certainly not coming from the cambox base or cambox end gaskets. Some pictures I've seen on the Fiat 124 forum showing manifold stud leaks certainly look like what I am seeing on my car. I've ordered a new manifold gasket, 5 manifold studs and some heat resistant threadlock, so I'm hoping for the best!

Regards

Carl

[peteracs]

Hi Carl

Probably not the easiest repair in situ, but sounds like you may have dodged a bullet not having to replace the cam box gaskets?

Peter

[mangocrazy]

I've ordered a new manifold gasket, 5 manifold studs and some heat resistant threadlock, so I'm hoping for the best!

Regards

Carl

Hi Carl, where did you order the manifold studs from? I'm certainly going to need some very soon.

Cheers,

Graham

[carl59862]

Hi Carl, where did you order the manifold studs from? I'm certainly going to need some very soon.

Cheers,

Graham

I ordered them from Ricambio. £1.50 each

[mangocrazy]

Thanks Carl!

Graham

[carl59862]

So, I had the manifold studs and gasket replaced and still no difference. The oil is certainly coming from the n/s/r of the head gasket. It's annoying because the gasket hasn't failed internally, compression is good and no water/oil contamination. Just a few small drips of oil down the back of the engine.

I now have 2 options.

Try an oil additive in the hope it might lessen the leak

Replace the head gasket.

If I accept the inevitable, can anyone recommend a workshop with experience in these engines? My local shop is unwilling to go any further due to their unfamiliarity.

Thanks!

Carl

[carl59862]

I have now decided to attempt the head gasket job myself… Being an early S1 car, it has the 1592cc engine (80mm bore). I have found a source for a head gasket, but if anyone has any recommendations I would be interested. Also, does anyone know if the head bolts on my engine are the same as for the 1585cc/1995cc engines. I suspect they are and I definitely want to fit new ones.

Any help appreciated!

Carl