Lancia Beta Forum

Hi all,
What are folks using for fast road pads these days? I've just tried to order some and I can't find ANYTHING! Tarox UK are out of stock- they're checking in Italy as I type. Red Dot (uk version of Tarox)- discontinued. EBC apparently don't make any 'fast road pads' for Beta, only standard type oem replacement. And even they're discontinued now. Betaboyz don't list any pads at all... Can anyone here suggest anything? I have brand new old stock Tarox discs on my HPE VX (yes, you guessed it- they don't even make the discs anymore!) and I want some pads with a bit of bite and no fade so I can enjoy the twisty bits we have in abundance round here. I thought I'd just have to type it into Google and take my pick! Wasn't I disappointed...?!

Any suggestions?
Andrew.

Hi Andrew, give Brakes International a try in Rochdale,Lancashire. They stock standard pads and they maybe able to get something made up for you. Good Luck Mark.

Andrew

ebay is awash with beta pads including EBC Greenstuff. I ordered Tarox ones with info from Mark Wastnidge.

Cheers

Eric

No it isn't! None whatsoever because EBC don't make 'em. There are EBC Ultimax pads on ebay but they are standard pads, not uprated. The rest of the ebay pads are cheap n cheerful standard pads.

Andrew.

I also found it hard to find standard fitment (fast road/race) pads, managed to source some fast road tarox pads in the end, i'll look into what company got them for me, it was over a year ago though and I had to wait a couple of weeks...
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=964418a8234b665dba5a9fe6659510a2&topic=472.msg1515#msg1515 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=964418a8234b665dba5a9fe6659510a2&topic=472.msg1515#msg1515)

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=162088 (http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=162088)
Think I may have ordered these, and then sent me tarox instead as there was such a wait on them :-\

also...
http://www.mintex-uk.com/framefix.asp?ProductCode=TRX-0075.112&PID=767377 (http://www.mintex-uk.com/framefix.asp?ProductCode=TRX-0075.112&PID=767377)
http://www.mintex-uk.com/framefix.asp?ProductCode=RD-XE755&PID=131338 (http://www.mintex-uk.com/framefix.asp?ProductCode=RD-XE755&PID=131338)

Marcus, there's an even longer wait now on the Red Dot pads- they're NLA. There's no Tarox Beta pads in stock anywhere in the country that I can find so I've ordered direct from Tarox UK for £64 :o. They'd better be good...

Andrew.

Can't think that red dot is such a loss if I remember correctly didn't they start out as a sort of cheap copy of tarox hence the use of the red dot?

If I recall correctly they started out as UK distributors for Tarox, then decided to go it alone with their own products which were remarkably similar to Tarox products... except, as you said, cheaper. A lot cheaper. Were they inferior or were they just priced more honestly... who knows? I do feel £64 is a lot of money for fast road pads when EBC Green Stuff are waaayyy cheaper for most of the cars I looked at. But as EBC only make standard replacement pads for the Beta they obviously don't think we have fast cars... >:( Actually I should've said 'made' not 'make' as they don't even bother any more...

Andrew.

Andrew

I stand corrected. I will probably sell off the car set of Tarox Fast Road pads, new calipers, drilled discs, braided hoses etc when I have finished the brake upgrade work as they will never cope with the tuned VX engine.

Progress is slow, but at least I now have all the engine parts for the build.

Cheers

Eric

Eric,
I'm looking forward to reading all about it! The most I'll probably do is fit a more suitable carb (i.e. one that doesn't strangle the engine) and a straight(ish) through stainless exhaust. I already have a nos CSC tubular manifold/downpipe fitted so I'm on the way...
Any suggestions on the carb?
Just how far are you going with your mods Eric?

Andrew.

Dear All,

Did we get an answer to this question? I ask as I am also in the market for something a lot better than standard. I can find drilled and slotted discs, but the best pad I can find is EBC green stuff AKA STD pads !!!

I am willing to pay.....(within reason!!)

don't bother with green stuff had those on our MG TF not much good recently changed to bog standard jurid pads and difference is chalk and cheese wife complained that are brakes are now too good !! :o ??

Pardon my ignorance, but are Beta style pads used on any other vehicles; for instance other Lancias or even other makes? I had a forlorn hope that PFC (Performance Friction Corporation) in the US might make pads for Betas, but they don't appear to.

They do, however list pads for the Stratos...!  Go figure...

I thought of PFC as I use them on motorbikes I own and they are superb pads.

The rear pads are shared with some Renault Espace models.

The front pads appear to be unique. BUT

A number of fiat group cars used very simiar bendix calipers and looking at the catalogue there are a number of pds that should fit though they are not an exact match.

Beta pads are shown as 108x53x17mm. Fiat Strada TC pads for example are 108x49x15 but it's not clear whether the 4mm comes from the inner or outer edge of the pad. The only way to know for sure would be to trial fit a set.

Also shown in the catalogue is that some Trevis had Girling calipers - can anyone confirm this? If correct then these were fitted to a much wider range of Fiat group cars  - all you'd need to do is find a pair of Girling Calipers for a Trevi  ;)

When I've time I'll check the Trevi microfiche but I think it is most likely a typical after market listing error

Front
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/GDB154.jpg?t=1298497926)
Rear
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/GDB155.jpg?t=1298497971)

in my experience not all Beta compatible after market pads are exactly the same size some have a smaller contact area and are probably not exactly right for a Beta will fit but will obviously have reduced braking power and will result in horrid narrow rusty strips on your discs.   

Guys most motorsport places will know of somewhere that will relign a standard set of brake pads with a different/better compound. I've had a place put a mintex compound on mine, I've talked to other shops who can also do this with other compounds etc.

Nothing good is standard...

Most likeley - but it would be interesting to see if the Girling calipers from a Delta / Dedra fitted the Beta.

don't think they would fit remember the beta is superduplex, that does lead to the question could you fit 4 pot calipers for instance AP racing such as fitted to the MG TF, no forget that what about fulvia front calipers

I'd be prepared to forgo the superduplex capability if it meant uprated calipers and increased availability of pad compounds. You could easily blank off the secondary outlet on the master cylinder, couldn't you? Might even make the pedal feel a little firmer...

not sure exactly what would happen I suspect that, depending which circuit you blanked, you would get either insufficient front braking or excessive rear braking, I think I am right in thinking that one circuit connects to both front and rear and the other services front only which is why the front callipers are so complicated

I think I got a bit confused because the MG has two bleed nipples but i don't think you can attach one circuit to one side of the calliper and the other to the second ,which is what I had in mind, as I am not sure that both front circuits will deliver the same force

I am building 4 pistons brakes using HiSpec R132-4 calipers and I gave Mark W the spec info to build his B4 setup. You use the mixed MC circuit to drive the front brakes and the former second front circuit to drive the Rear. There is a wide choice of pads and the 15 inch vented discs (Fiat Coupe) give a serious braking improvement.

Eric

sounds like a good plan have to say though that I would still reckon for most folks the standard set up, when working as it should, is absolutely fine

Hi Eric,

Sounds like another thing to pick your brains on when I see you Sunday...   :D

I'm a big fan of opposed piston 4 pot calipers, having used Brembo calipers of that ilk on most of the bikes I've owned in the last 20 years. I presume that only the front calipers are converted to 4-pot, and the rears are left standard? And how does one fit 15" discs to Beta 14" wheels (or does one need a rim upgrade as well)?

Dear Andrew, Did you get anywhere with decent fast road pads for your HPE VX? I am now in a similar position and after stripping and rebuilding all four calipers, sourcing EBC rear discs, and braided hoses, need a set of pads for front and rear. The best I can find for normal money is:Brembo fronts (i.e DP230 pattern), and EBC rears, (ie DP231).
Apparently EBC do not make fronts any more, and Brembo do not make rears! All I want to do is have a decent balanced set which have a common compound. How hard would you think that is??
Do you have any suggestions. I do not want to put Chinese cheap pattern parts on once all the hard work has been done.
Apart from that the rebuild of "Lulu's" suspension is going well.
Best,
Chas and Anne. :)

Hello you two!

It's been so long I am a little vague on what I ended up with... lol. I definitely eventually got my Tarox front pads- I ordered them directly from Tarox UK and they ordered them (I think) from Italy. I have a very vague recollection of having waited a few weeks for them but I did get them and I'm 99% certain they're fitted in my front calipers now. My car is undergoing a sloooow interior restoration/upgrade and will be ready for spring summer autumn spring next year... ??? ;D and so hasn't been in use hence my fuzzy memory. What I fitted in the back calipers I really can't remember... I may have got a full set of Tarox but I really don't think I did; I probably fitted EBC to the rear. If I can get round to checking I'll post here.
I do remember being very frustrated that there was sod all available for our cars except cheap stuff so I totally understand your predicament. Tarox UK were very helpful if you want to try and get hold of some Tarox pads. Just so pricey! Terrible really. Sorry I can't be much more help.

Andrew.

Dear Andrew, thanks for your reply. When I spoke to a chap at EBC yesterday he said that although they make (and stock) rear pads for the Beta and MonteCarlo they do not and possibly have never made matching pads for the front! (Unless anyone can tell me otherwise). That is either in "Ultimax" spec or "Greenstuff" spec. However we / I can send them our backing plates from our worn out front sets, they will blast clean and re attach a pad compound on to our plates "as a special". This is done by hand in their Test Facility and due to this it will be.........
£149.00 for a front set!
(Cheap at half the price....not).

Another possibility was a lead I found via Google refering to an Ebay listing in the States selling old fashioned Ferodo FDB102'S for both front and rear, made using an earlier asbestos compound, (which actually grips). The prices were very reasonable.
Have any of you out there had any experience with this FDB102 pad from Ferodo?
Comments welcome, (or form an orderly queue for the "bargain EBC pads".
Best,
Chas and Anne. :)

 

Chas,

FDB102 isn't the type of pad material it's the design. I think FDB102 is the rear pad only. IIRC FDB101 is the front pads - I'm not sure if they were ever fitted to anything non-Lancia.

Dear Stuart, found this on ebay. What do you think?

http:www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281010349664?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Best,
Chas. :)

Confusing.

The picture shows both front and rear pads but the listing is for rear only.

As to whether the compound is actually any good  - your guess is a good as mine. The listing is trying a bit too hard which always makes me suspicious - that said a Ferodo product is unlikely to be crap. I suspect they are decent quality road pads and nothing more.

I do know that the product was developed in the 60s - you'd hope that even moving away from asbestos some progress has been made since!

Latest news from "Betabrakepadsearch.co.uk":
I received a very helpful email from Mark @Betaboyz, mentioning the motorsportworld website. On delving in, they list EBC, Tarox and Black Diamond pads for the Beta. On phoning them up, the same old story is repeated again. EBC do not make front pads only rears. (Although they are listed). Black Diamond, the same. Tarox list the fronts for Beta and Beta HPE, but no mention of rears. However Tarox actually make (and have in stock) some rear pads for the HPE as well. They just don't tell anyone about it!

By chance the next shipment from Italy is leaving this morning via road, and should be in the UK mid next week-ish. I have double checked the part no for the pattern and everything looks OK , and ordered a COMPLETE SET of the Tarox Strada fast road pads from them.
The slight downside is the price. £75.00 each set. (That's with a 10% discount). They better be B****y good.
I have ordered a set of EBC brake discs for the rear at the same time, so what with the "next to new" condition of the front discs this is the best I can achieve without going mad.
Who'ed have thought that basic consumable parts of decent quality would be so difficult to source. Anyway when the bits come I'll get Anne to wrap them up for Christmas presents!
best, (and Happy Christmas to all),
Chas and Anne. :o

Hi

As you say, better be good and last more than 5 mins.......!

How much would 'normally available' pads be for another similar car out of interest?

Peter

Dear Peter,
It's difficult to say exactly, but "good known brand" pads seem to be around the £25 - 28 per set (front or rear). Cheap factor patterns from about £16 -18 "ish". So these Tarox are 3 time the price of "good" for a fast road spec, admittedly with better fade resistance and better Co of friction etc. Though I do not know how good they are on the track. Possibly Marcus ("Lanciamad") might enlighten us with his experience in his track HPE?
All I have to do now is hope the Royal mail come up trumps before Xmas???
I am an eternal optimist.
Best,
Chas, ::)

I don't think you will be dis-appointed for your use Chas ;) If there the same as in mine, which i'm 99% sure they will be, the high price paid won't hurt so bad once you've bedded them in, put the brakes on and stop just as well as modern machinery, even if the pedals a lot stiffer to push! 'I think' i've taken the standard set-up to its maximum and to be fair it holds up pretty well to fade considering the abuse it gets on track normally doing 20 min sessions (roughly 9 laps of a 2 mile circuit), with road use i'd say its very good - excellent and being a "fast-road" pad they work well from cold as well.
I got mine about 3 years ago now and they were a similar price then :-\ I'd love to go to the next level with the brakes but I don't think funds will allow anytime soon and I haven't used it since norfolk! :(
Marcus.

Dear Marcus, I am on the verge of looking forward to them! Thanks for the thumbs up.
Best,
Chas. :)

In my fruitless search for shock absorbers, I found EBC pads( all sorts of grades) listed at Larkspeed. Unlike shock absorbers, an idle click has produced a set of Ultimax fronts in Saturdays post! Result.


http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl (http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl)

Mark

Encouraged by smithymc above, I had a nose around on EBC's site and downloaded the application spreadsheet. On there I noticed that EBC 'Greenstuff' pads were listed for our Betas (an excellent upgrade for fast road work), but couldn't find them in the online shop. I sent this note using their web query option:

I'm looking for replacement pads for my 1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2 litre, and have downloaded your Application Excel spreadsheet. In there I was delighted to sse that EBC Greenstuff pads are available (DP2230 Front, DP2231 Rear) for my car. I've used Greenstuff pads on my motorbikes, so I know how good they are. However, when I try ordering them from EBC Direct, they don't appear to be listed. How can I get hold of a full set (Front & Rear)?

It's also worth mentioning that the Beta Owners Club are looking around for a supplier of sport-biased pads for Betas, so there is the potential for quite a few sales.

I was pleasantly surprised to receive this reply the day after posting my query from Andrew Bartosiak, Manager of their Technical department:

Hi Graham

I will have the greenstuff DP2230 in stock by Friday

Rear green DP2231 are in stock

These pads DP2230 will not have the wear lead if that is important

Green is a good upgrade for the road but not suitable for track

If some people may wish to do a trackday then we could make some yellowstuff for you DP4230R DP4231R

Rear already a stock item

We could do a special deal for the owners club of 50% off retail

Regards
 

Andrew Bartosiak

All of which sounds a bit of a result to me....  Any comments or suggestions?

Hi Graham

I agree, a full result given that both fast road and race pads can be supplied, with a discount as well, you deserve a beer at least for that.

Peter

Set of green fronts over here please!

What a good result!

Assuming the price is right, I will take a full set of greens (front and rear)

Hi

Did you get any info on how we are to order them?

Peter

That's what I was wondering about. I'm guessing that to get our Forum discount it would need to be a Group Buy in some kind of semi-official manner. Alternatively I can take orders and pass them on. I asked a bit more about the difference between Green and Yellow pads, and Green are the recommended Road pad, but aren't recommended for track use. Yellow is the stuff for track use.

I was wondering whether BetaBoyz might want to add the Green pads to the list of stuff they sell?

Green work from cold, on a light car they're probably OK for occasional track use, hill climbs etc.

I've had them on a few cars and they're pretty good. My usual test of driving through Milton Keynes from East to West failed to get any to fade and I can get most standard car brakes to wilt a bit there if the roads are clear....

Yellow aren't so good cold but they'd be the ones for sustained track use 

Stuart

EBC have re-formulated that pad compounds in the last couple of years and Yellow stuff have had big changes from the old wooden until hot formulation. They are now used widely on UK Police cars and I would have them over Green stuff every time.

Eric

Eric,

Thanks  - I didn't know that. I always thought the 'old' yellow pads were a bit dangerous for road use TBH so it's good to know they've modified them.

The latest email I received from Andrew at EBC said this:

The green will be the best compound for the road

If you have someone doing track events and they don’t want to change pads at the track then yellow will be ok for road use also but will not really offer any advantage over green in road use

Green will not be suitable for track events

However I'm sure there's a fair amount of corporate arse covering/liability disclaimer going on in that statement...

So - shall I give people Andrew's email address to sort out their individual requirements, or should we put in a group order?

Hi

Did he indicate how to place orders?

Also if we need a minimum order quantity?

It would also be good to have some pricing.

Sorry to put the onus on you to answer this, if that is a problem, happy to help out.

Peter

^^^ Wot he said

Apart from the bit about helping out, I'm far too lazy and unreliable for that :)

I'll ask...

I'd be up for a set of greens and maybe yellow as well depending on cost.
Andybeta

Any update on a group buy? 

Sorry to keep chasing but did you get anywhere with this?