Lancia Beta Forum

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lancia-Delta-Integrale-8v-vernier-pulleys-cam-gears-NEW-/220584845768?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item335be1a1c8 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lancia-Delta-Integrale-8v-vernier-pulleys-cam-gears-NEW-/220584845768?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item335be1a1c8)
Would these fit to a beta? or did they change them for the delta's? being Lancia.

MArcus,


I'm afraid I don't know the answer to this  - but I'd like to find out. Even wth standard cams the best I can usually manage is within a couple of degrees with the standard wheels. It'd be nice to get it spot on.

Perhaps a question on the Guy Croft forum wpuld provide the answer ?

Stuart

Judging by the shape of the tooth form on the wheels they would probably fit as they are the "square section" tooth form. Most 16V and all later motors used the semi circular shape tooth form - this is better than the earlier tooth form as it reduces the tendency of the belt to "stick" in the pulley as it is trying to come out of the notch.

GC lists his vernier pulleys to fit all 8V TC motors, and I know the single cam Fiat as used in X1/9 etc is the same as one of the TC ones.

Shame the auction has ended - maybe they will be relisted?- I would give them a try at that price.....

You were saying ;) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220601892570 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220601892570)

The pulleys don't have the 'edge' on them that help retain the belt on the Beta - don't know if this would prevent their use?

As if by magic they are relisted!!! (Nothing to do with me contacting the seller....)

Anyway I'm going to buy a set so long as they can be shipped to OZ at a reasonable cost..... ???

The flangeless design will not make a difference - so long as the auxilliary shaft pulley is still flanged. Later 2 litre motors had flangeless cam pulleys anyway.

With these pulleys you can use Guy Crofts 1" wide timing belt - a must if you are doing standing starts from very high RPM. (That won't be me with my std clutch then.....)

Will post an update when I receive them and also a dyno result - I will at last be able to dial in my 42/82 cams properly!  ;D

I was reading GC's book last night and found a small note at the back of the book that the later reversed port head pulleys (such as Integrale) may have a different offset to earlier pulleys.......Well I have already done the deed and they are on the way to me, so some finger crossing is now in order I think......The problem now is not whether they will fit, but whether the belt alignment will be correct.....I hope I have not lead you up the garden path Marcus!

Mine came today...
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/lanciamad_album/Photo0534.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/lanciamad_album/Photo0536.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/lanciamad_album/Photo0535.jpg)
That's compared to a 131 pulley, only difference is that the original tooth is completely flat and these have a very miniscule chamfer to them (not a problem). The width of them is the same as original with flange. I have not been able to check the offset however, (i'll leave that upto you Ian) if it is different, could a spacer/washer be rigged up to compensate?

can you bring them to Goodwood, be nice to compare with a Gamma pulley.

Geoff

So, are we saying that these adjustable camwheels DO fit the Lancia Twin Cam motor and will work correctly? If they do, I can feel a purchase coming on...    ;D

IF, the offset is the same then I cant see why not, only thing is why didn't some other bright spark think oh that'll be the same as all the 8v's, gives me the impression somethings got to be different  :-[ let's hope not!
I'll bring them along Geoff.

Pulleys arrived today and installed, but there are differences, and you will not be able to use the original cam belt cover unless it is modified.

My findings:

1. They fit the cam perfectly, but there are no timing marks or holes to assist with initial timing.
2. The new pulleys are not identical to each other - the key holes are in different positions for each cam, but this actually proves to be a bonus when fine tuning, as it means the scale on the pulleys is at the top when the cam is in the FULL LIFT postion - which with my 42/82/82/42 cams is 110 crank degrees after TDC for inlet, 110 crank degrees before TDC for exhaust
3. The offset as I feared is different by approx 5mm - the new pulleys are about 5 mm further forward than the originals - see pic with straight edge compared to OE pulley.
4. The OE pointer/belt bracket will not fit with these pulleys.
5. This was not a problem with my engine as the belt was already running on the front edge of the OE pulleys and with the new pulleys it actually runs in the middle! This was fine for me, but will be a problem if your belt runs on the rear of the standard set up, or you wish to use a wider belt.
6. The fine 1 degree markings on the pulley make adjusting very easy - just slacken the 5 bolts and use a 19mm spanner on the end of the cam bolt - it turns very easily inside the outer, and is solid again when bolts tight.

So the bottom line is - they do fit but they are not the correct pulleys for this engine - offset is different on the later reversed port engines.

Wow fast work.
Couple of things, what belt is it that your using? Looks like the 1" from the pic.
Is it the whole bracket which fouls on the cam pulleys or just the pointer part?
Have you had it running with them fitted?
They look good. Marcus.

Hi Marcus,

It is the standard 3/4" wide cam belt. The pics show the original cam belt, (I used this just to check everything was OK, but have now fitted a new STANDARD Gates 3/4" x 148 teeth belt - cam belts are not supposed to be reused!). The pointer part fouls the pulleys, you could modify or even space the pointer bracket to clear, but as I was not using a a belt cover anyway I did not bother, and there are no holes in the new pulleys to line up with the pointers.

Just wanted to add you need to use a flanged auxilliary driveshaft pulley if you are using flangeless cam pulleys.

I took it for a 20km road test (along with the tow rope....) and have had it running fine past 7000 RPM.......The belt is fine no problems.

As  ever though you fix one thing and something else breaks, and now everything is timed to perfection, the pump jets have started dripping on the Webers and causing havoc with my idle/part throttle running....A look at my float needles and fuel presure are in order I think, then plug in the wide band O2 sensor and set it all up. I am itching to Dyno this thing, but want to do a power run only, I am not paying someone a lot of Dollars to mess with it on the rollers, especially as it seems very difficult to find people who know anything about carburettors nowadays. Laptops and injection are the modern way!

Oh well I suppose I know now why there are 2 days in every weekend........The joys of modifying your car eh!

Just to add to this some more for future reference, i've just come across these... http://www.midwest-bayless.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=208227&c=193575&i=253868225 (http://www.midwest-bayless.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=208227&c=193575&i=253868225)
Let me/us know if anyone buys these and fits them for interest :)

The original ebay seller still has some in stock for £ 109 so can't see anyone shelling out $ 284 instead? They look pretty much the same?

I used this firm for mine - http://www.millersmule.com/ (http://www.millersmule.com/)

Great quality parts but you do have to make sure you get them the right way round - guess how I know! ;o))

Cheers

Darren