Lancia Beta Forum

Basically i'm looking into doing a bike throttle bodies conversion on my HPE. I've got an idea on how to do it and what will need modifying from the standard bosch fuel injection system but no idea on what and where I can get specific parts and who can make them.
Things I can think of atm....
What bodies do people recommend? Bore size? From what bike?
Will the bike injectors be upto the job supplying the amount of fuel required?
Can the TPS from the bike be used?
What management system do people recommend? DTA?
Like so many people i'm on a tight budget hence bike bodies over something like jenveys, so bare that in mind.
Thats all for now, suggestions please....  :)

A lot of my questions have been answered kindly by Eric (WestonE) a few months ago.... read below, but feel free to chip in with suggestions and idea's, the saving a few quid one's I find the best  ;D
"I run a Montecarlo on Jenvey Throttle bodies, Wasted Spark (no Distributor) Ignition and Emerald K3 ECU. It is extensively modified and revs to 8500 rpm in one long surge producing 200bhp. For your situation I would suggest MegaSquirt as an ECU and using throttle bodies from a motorbike with 36- 40mm bore sizes. People like Bogg Brothers can build you a manifold cheaply and tell you where to get the throttle bodies. You will need a new 36-1 crank trigger to get a high enough data rate for the ECU ( I use a wheel from Trigger wheels.com fitted to a VX pulley). You will use a throttle position sensor and throw away the horribly restrictive flap meter from the standard set up. NB just changing this to a hot wire meter might give you a real gain with the standard set up.

Buy the Haynes Engine Management book written by Dave Walker from Emerald and read with care. You can source a wasted spark coil pack and HT leads from a Scrap Mondeo/ Focus/ Fiesta.  With no other engine mods you can expect 165BHP smooth progression throughout the rev range and great throttle response provided you do not fit overly large throttle bodies i.e. 36 might be better than 40mm with no other engine mods i.e. raised compression ratio, higher lift longer duration cams, a flowed head and tubular 4 into 2 into 1 manifold.  In my opinion the mappped ignition is far more important than the injection and you may need a new injection pump and a higher line pressure (adjustable) to get the injectors to work with your new set up.

I have seen complete Emerald and Jenvey kits for £1500 in Kit Car magazines and that is where to look for advice on building an injection system.   Whilst I assembled the unit Guy Croft did the crank prep and head work. There are pictures on the Monte Consortium Web Site (the old one).

I suggested Bike bodies because a lot of the cost is in the TBs injectors linkage and manifold although the Jenveys are supurb. I love the Emerald K3 but it is overkill for our needs as there are no turbos invloved and a lot of the features like flat shift gear change I have not installed."

only point I could add:

quote"
wasted spark cuts charge time in half and is not recommended for high rpm
or race engines
"quote

I'll try and find the full article

Geoff

Found it , thanks to google recent history,

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html (http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html)

it's a lot to read but I can assure you it's worth it

look at me 19th century man copy/pasting web pages, whatever next

Thanks for that Geoff, thats a good find. Give me some reading material when i've got some more spare time  :)

Well i've bit the bullet and purchased some throttle bodies, more details and pics. i'll put on the blog once they arrive but here's a pic. of them for now.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/lanciamad_album/Bh1jCLQB2kKGrHqUOKiUEsoIvo2ToBLLKHP.jpg)
I'm planning on having the car rolling roaded locally to me to see what it is currently running at standard, and have noticed this, http://www.mtechautomotive.co.uk/engine-management/systems/#V3_Engine_Management_System, (http://www.mtechautomotive.co.uk/engine-management/systems/#V3_Engine_Management_System,) the M-tech V3. From it's description it seems ideal, reasonably priced and being able to switch between maps for road and track would be pretty 8)
Any views/suggestions of it or a different system? Being realistic, thats the max of my budget.

Marcus

Nice looking bike bodies. you might want to try Darren Cooksey the Monte Consortium Membership secretary (details on their site) as he is nearly finished installing bike bodies and FI to his Montecarlo using the MegaSquirt ECU and wasted spark ignition.

NB Wasted Spark was OE kit on Ford Zetec units and widely usec by all the major motor manufacturers including in competitive touring cars at very high revs. You should be save enough with it provided the ECU is designed to work with it and the necessary crank and throttle postion sensors are well set up.

Look into MegaSuirt a bit more as it is cheap and widely used which will be important when you come to get it mapped. The V6 Supercharged Montecarlo is using MegaSquirt. Geoff Wards FI Montecarlo uses Omex and Spencer uses an Emerald M3DK.

I will be using FI and an ECU on my VX Beta Spyder and have already made the trigger wheel assembly and water temp sensor adaptor.
I am now working out how to get 4 Pico injectors into the VX manifold. I will be using a twin 45 Jenvey body on the front of the charger with the injector ports plugged.   

I have now worked out how to upgrade my Beta Brakes to 284 vented front discs so that is a project running.
I am very impressed by your progress with the HPE. Keep up the amazing job.

Eric

Marcus,

Just seen this topic - I've got the Megasquirt Monte and I'll be at Gaydon next weekend if you want to chat.

ECU - Megasquirt - bought as a kit and built
Wiring loom - purpose built
Crank pulley with 36-1 triggerwheel - purchased from Millers Mule
Crank Sensor - Punto item and bracket fabricated
Sensors (Air & Water) are GM and Delta respectively
EDIS unit bought from triggerwheels.com
Throttle bodies - GSXr 750 K2 units, using TPS, injectors, throttle linkage and slightly adapted fuel rail
Manifold was locally fabricated
Most other bits sourced from ebay and breakers
LC-1 WB sensor from ExtraEFI

I can talk you through the process, which I made 10 times more complicated than it should have been!

Feel free to come back to me if you have any questions or queries

Cheers

Darren

(http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_1192.JPG)

Hi Darren,
I'm not sure if i'm going to gaydon or not yet, but if I do, which monte am I looking for? If I do make it, it might be useful if I bring everything i've got for the setup with me, so you can point me in the right direction / tell me what i'm missing. I'm on manifold idea 2 at the moment, fingers crossed it might just work.
Marcus.

Hi Marcus,

Mine's a red spider with a black found bubble hard top, black non-standard bumpers and integrale wheels.  Failing that, find Mr Weston and the chances are I'll be in close proximity! 80)

Look forward to hopefully catching up on Saturday.

Cheers

Darren

Won't be making it unfortunately due to commitments and i've already been to way too many events this year. I will update as I go along and badger you with plenty of questions I expect! :)

No worries chap, I know that feeling well!  Feel free to email or pm me anytime.

Cheers

Darren