Lancia Beta Forum

Hi
New to this  and also a complete novice when it comes to things mechanical or electrical, so hoping someone might be able to provide me with some step by step diagnosis (and hopefully fix).
1983 HPE 2000ie starter turns healthy (recent new battery) but engine won't fire. Was serviced last year including reconditioned starter motor and was running like a good one until a few days ago.
I recently retired so in theory have time to poke around and learn....

Any advice would be welcome
Thanks
Richard

Welcome  - please post something introducing yourself and your car!

Basics first:

Do you have spark? 
Are the injectors supplying fuel?

Does the fuel pump start when you turn the key? It's in the back in the tank, usually easy to hear when it starts up.

Thanks  I will investigate ............

Basic intro - long time association with Lancia - had a couple of Deltas in the late 80's early 90's (1500 & 1600GT). My father ran Lancia's for many years (assorted Beta's and then a 2000ie HPE. I also have a S2 Fulvia, and got the HPE 2 years ago. Its had some work done on it, some welding, new brake lines, reconditioned starter and a few other minor things. The HPE was privileged to be on the stand at last Novembers Classic Car show.  As I mentioned I presently have very limited understanding and therefore skills in things mechanical and electrical but looking to learn.

I am forming a list of things to check (thanks also to other reply ) so will work out and work through and come back

I had an i.e.2000 HPE back in the day and had problems starting it although intermittent which got worse.
Turned out to be a dry solder track on one of the boards (I think the motherboard) within the ECU box.
The box looks like it is sealed but you can get into it with a little force.

I think check out the usual fuel and spark suspects as the guys suggest but if one of these fails, for example the fuel pump is working when tested independently but not when connected to the car system as a last resort it might be the box.

C

Hi Richard

If you need any IE bits, let me know, I still have the parts from the IE Coupe I used as a donor for my HPE.

Peter

I have had a similar experience. (In my case it was a Gamma S2.)
At that time the fuel pump fuse (No. 17) was blown.
I suggest you get a copy of the L-Jetronic manual.

Checkout Tyson’s Facebook page as he has just posted all the L-Jetronic manuals.

https://www.facebook.com/subgothius/ (https://www.facebook.com/subgothius/)

Peter

Many thanks for the advice, my voyage from ignorance to the light progresses slowly...

As far as I can see main fuses are ok
I cannot hear any noise when I turn the ignition switch
Not brave enough to work out fuel etc but going to try.

Peter I followed the link but could not see the downloads. Seems like a good idea to get hold of the manual.

So it would seem that the fuel pump is the best place to start , now be patient with me where is it and what does it look like?

Many thanks
Richard

Hi Richard,
Your fuel pump is located on the right side just forward of the fuel tank.

Factory standard is a Bosch unit.

You'll find the fuel filter there as well.

Best wishes
Nigel

Hi

Try this and scroll through the posts to find various docs posted by Tyson

https://www.facebook.com/search/posts?q=L-jetronic (https://www.facebook.com/search/posts?q=L-jetronic)

Peter

Whilst you're under there have a good look at the state of the rubber hoses in case they're getting past their best and need replacing. You can check the electrical connections with a multimeter and the pump itself by a direct connection to a 12v battery. The pump should be pre-filtered, they're delicate things but reliable unless you get crud in them which will cause the 6 plastic pins on the impellor drive to bend/shear and then it's new pump time.

And safety first, do not go underneath the car unless it's on a ramp and properly chocked or on axle stands.

Guy

Beta Tanks create their own rust and scale on the inside which then clogs and kills the pump. This typically happens when a car is brought back into regular use after a lack of use. There should be a good quality pre filter before the pump even if the factory did not fit one. These are service items that will clog with tank debris over time but save your rotary vane high pressure pump. There are lots of choice available.
The fuel pipes should all be replaced with Ethanol resistant new pipes and STAINLESS clips. The old ones will likely be cracked an or swelling introducing a risk of fire! There is plenty on this forum about R9 fuel hose suppliers. 

You should lift the boot carpet remove the central plastic cap and lift out the fuel sender with care. You can then with a torch and mirror get and idea on corrosion and crud in the tank. Even if you find the fault is power or earth to the pump from a dodgy fuse/ relay or connection you need to know if your tank if full of crud waiting to cause you a breakdown.

If the tank needs to be removed obviously it is time for new pipes clips and filters front to back.

Eric     

Thanks all, huge learning curve for me, so all of the information and advice is greatly appreciated!
I will digest and continue investigations and buy a circuit tester.

Peter thanks for the F/B links these worked and amazingly I understood some of it.

Richard

Hi
Is this the fuel pump?
Richard

Yes, at the bottom of the picture, looks like a filter after it though?

Hi Richard,
As Guy said, yes. The filter on mine was mounted on the cross member.
Both are not easy to get to. I found it was best to remove the parts with the brackets attached
rather than try to remove from the brackets still attached to the car.
Soak the nuts with penetrating oil and they should come free.

Nigel

Please don't take my comment as meaning the filter is in the wrong place! That one is a filter designed to stop the tiny particles that can get through the pump from clogging the injectors. Is there another one before the pump or is it just the wire mesh trap on the pick up pipe that's part of the tanked mounted sender unit what stops crud getting to the pump? Judging by the state of the one on my car it may not be doing it's job any more. If you find that the pump makes a noise when connected to a power supply and doesn't pump fuel I'd suggest the pump needs replacement but that the cause of the failure might be a blockage caused at the pick up necessitating a new in tank sender unit?
Guy

Hello everyone and welcome Richard!

I have an 84 injected HPE just like yours. I did the fuel system not all that long ago with Nigel ( who kindly helped out and who is also on this thread )
so if this is the problem I felt compelled to help.

Firstly the Fuel Pump and Filter are in a very hard to reach place so well done finding them!

There's a mesh filter inside the tank to collect the gunk from inside your tank before it makes its way to the pump, the problem is that our cars are 40+ years old, this filter is a non-serviceable part so chances are it's no longer effective and that means crud could be circulating in your tank and making its way directly to your fuel pump and fouling the blades ...so what's often recommended ( and what we did after assessing that the state of the tank was fine ) was we fashioned a tool and pierced a hole in this mesh to assist in allowing the free-flow of fuel from the tank. You'll need to replace this 'step' though and I was recommended a Baldwin inline mesh filter ( part number : FF30145 ) positioned just after the tank and before the pump ...this has thus far performed very well.

So then the fuel goes as follows :


Tank   -   Baldwin/Mesh Filter   -   Bosch/Fuel Pump   -  Bosch/Fuel Filter  -  Engine.


It's been running like a sewing machine ( if you will excuse the expression ) ever since, it might be something else but do feel free to drop me a line if you need further explanation of the above.

Let us know how you get on and or if you need any more help.


All the best and good luck. Andrew.