Lancia Beta Forum

Any recommendations for firms that would refurbish a Beta Bendix rear brake caliper?

I know that lots of forum members have had good service from Big Redd, but I had a particularly bad experience with them in 2019, so I'm looking for alternatives.

(Ironically this will be my third rear offside brake refurb. It's this one that has seized/failed/broken on my last 3 Coupes)

Thanks
Neil

Hi Neil,
Not sure if you have found somewhere suitable for refurbing your calipers yet but I just got a quote for refurbishment of 2 x Beta Spyder calipers from "Brake Caliper Solutions" in their standard paint finish (silver, black, gold) for £129+VAT.  I believe they also upgrade to a higher quality finish for £169 + VAT.
Their blurb states: 
"All stripped down & blasted back to bare cast, finished to which finish you require, then new pistons and seals. Bleed nipples are used."

Not sure whether "Bleed nipples are used" means that they reuse your old ones, or just that they actually fit bleed nipples?

https://www.brakecalipersolutions.co.uk/ (https://www.brakecalipersolutions.co.uk/)

They're not difficult to do it yourself, I did some several years ago and bought some kits not that long ago to do more before I ended up selling the VX recently.

For me, it's time that I'm short of!  Outsourcing for a full refurb is also cheaper than getting a local garage to service the old ones.

Hi

Personally either do it yourself or give the job to a company who knows how to do it as has done it before as they are not difficult, but probably easy for someone who is not prepared to take the time and has never done it before to make a cod’s of it…

Peter

I'm taking your advice and decided to actually do the brake refurb myself - after all, how am I going to learn anything if I outsource it to someone else?
2 hours of straining and rolling around on the garage floor in 26c heat, I am wondering if I made the right decison!   The carrier bolts are super rusty & tighter than a ducks rear end on a winter pond and only after using a 3-foot long socket extension have I managed to get them off!   The discs and pads are actually virtually unworn, although obviously quite a few years old, which leads me to think that they were changed then the car was laid up for a few years?
Anyway, I'm fitting new discs and EBC pads, (copper grease on the rear of the pads), changing the fluid and hopefully will have a sweet-braking car again.  What brake fuid would you guys recommended btw?

Incidentally, I didn't realise that the front calipers have dual brake lines attached - presumably this is down to a dual-circuit brake system? (I haven't read the Haynes manual yet!  ;D )

Forgot to mention that I also pushed the piston halfway out and it is very clean and not corroded at all, looks new in fact!  So I decided to replace the rubbers and leave it alone.  It's obviously not the binding problem, although the rear of the disc has a very deep score in it, also the brake pad, which leads me to believe that it may have had a stone stuck in there?

Hi

Yes, dual circuit on the front, single at the rear.

Be careful when undoing the bleed nipples as they often rust in and are a pain to release. If you break them off be prepared for more pain……..

Haynes will list the brake fluid though any Dot 4 should be ok

Peter

Thanks Peter - I'll be drenching them in fast release spray and leaving for a day or two before I touch them!

If they prove to be just too difficult to undo or do break off, then a quick solution is to use a banjo bolt bleeder which replaces the banjo bolt where the flexi hose attaches to the calliper.

Peter

Thanks Peter - are they available from Mark do you know?

Hi

On his site, yes, currently showing as sold out, but they are available widely from memory, size is on Mark’s listing

https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p20/Banjo_Bolt_with_Bleed_Nipple.html

Peter

They are readily available on ebay and to be honest are better than the plated ones Mark sells, as you can get them in stainless:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131817736572 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131817736572)

Thread pitch is M10 x 1.25

Hi Graham

Good call, I also replaced my bleed nipples with stainless which will hopefully help long term.

Peter

Yes, I will always use stainless fittings on brake unions, to me it's a no-brainer. I will also replace any non-critical steel fastener with a stainless equivalent, as long as the original fastener is grade 8.8 or lower. High tensile fasteners (grade 10.9 or 12.9) must be replaced like for like. But when using stainless fittings it's important to use aluminium or copper anti-seize paste/grease to guard against galling.

Thanks guys, appreciate the input.  The offside front disc & pads swap is now sorted and done but I'm having some serious issues with the nearside!  After (finally) getting the caliper bolts out, I could see that the piston rubber boot was completely missing and the piston itself was much more dirty and corroded than the other side.  It is now pretty obvious why the brakes were binding and the wheel was getting hot on this side!   
Right now however, the biggest problem is that the old disc simply will not budge off the hub - I'm guessing that the previous owner driving it with binding brakes may have heated it up several times. 
A couple of days of spraying and whacking with successively-larger hammers is achieving nothing and I'm worried about damaging the bearing if I continue. As I don't have a suitable puller, the only option I can think of is heating the disc to try to loosen it.  Any suggestions gratefully received?
 

Incidentally, in case anyone is wondering why I am not cleaning up / painting the calipers and suspension arms etc. whilst I'm at it - the bottom line is that I want to drive the car while there is some Summer left!  Removing the wheels again and refurbing the arms, hubs and calipers is a Winter job in a nice warm workshop!  ;)

I think you'll probably need a good three legged puller to get it off.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394192779995?hash=item5bc7b87adb:g:2w8AAOSwpEZi76ch (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394192779995?hash=item5bc7b87adb:g:2w8AAOSwpEZi76ch)
Other suppliers out there! or borrow one for someone? I'm in Formby, Merseyside if you're anywhere near?

Guy

Hi

I suspect you would need bigger ones than the ones you linked to.

On the subject of bearing being damaged, I would also suspect if the hub has got that hot, then the bearing lube will not be in great shape and hence will need changing which is a whole extra amount of pain. However on the upside, that does mean you remove the whole hub assembly and would be able to use a press to get the disc off. The bad news is having to remove that hub nut.


Peter

unclejam,
The disc will come off.
Yes, use some heat inside the right-angle, and once hot hit it with
a bigger hammer,a club hammer will do it.
Several heavy hits, turning it as well, should do it.

As long as the hub nut hasn't been loosened, the bearing should remain
in the same state. It is well supported by the axle.

Good luck
Nigel

Thanks Nigel, yes it DID come off - thankfully without any apparent damage!
Now that I have had a good look, the reason this corner was also binding is now apparent: rusty discs and knackered pads are present of course but what it NOT present is the top locking wedge / slider!
This of course has meant that the caliper is not located properly in the carrier and must be moving around under braking. Not good.
Can anyone point me to where I might be able to find a replacement wedge / slider?  It is the nearside rear caliper, top wedge.  Any help gratefully received.

Mind the gap!

Hi

I probably have a spare one and may even find the spring clip. Let me know if you need me to hunt them out.

Peter

Thanks for the offer Peter - Mark is hopeful that he has one and is looking tomorrow for me. If not, I may take you up on it.
 :)

3 corners done - just the offside rear left.  It has been a lot more effort than I had expected but having dimantled and inspected everything - I'm VERY glad that I did!

Hi

Nice looking car….

Peter

Thanks Peter, it was resprayed and some bits and pieces restored about 6/7 years ago according to the limited history I have. Interior is original & excellent and everything works and the chassis appears to be solid and well-protected, although I have yet to scrape off the underseal for a "belt & braces" check! Sadly there was only paperwork from the 2015 owner onwards, who spent a lot of time and money on the car.  Ironically he lives in Plymouth not far from me, so I might try to contact him for a chat.
 
It was a very lucky find, being sold on Facebook Marketplace by a (dance choregrapher! :D) guy who knew nothing about cars but liked the retro looks of the Spyder.
He had bought it from his neighbour for £4k and just wanted his money back!  By pure fluke, I spotted the advert 30 minutes after he posted it and after calling him to confirm, I jumped in my car and drove to Cardiff to pay for it there and then.   Whilst I was there looking at the car, he had two other phone calls offering him £6k and £7k to "gazump" me!
 
At that point, he realised that he had advertised it for way less than it's market value but to his credit, he did the deal anyway.   He felt it was going to the right person and I regaled him with the story of how a Beta Coupe was my first ever car and the sentimental value it held for me.  I was and still am chuffed to bits with the Spyder and it's getting a lot of love & attention currently. 

I will be making a video on the car to air on my Youtube channel (The Alfa Nut) in the next few weeks, so will let you all know when it goes out.  :)

Hi

If I had of been much younger I would have had a stab at YouTube. There is precious little on there re Betas and most of it is not worth watching. The is one guy, Ottos Garage, who has a large number of videos on his restoration/construction of a Prisma Integrale, and ones like Harry’s Garage Fulvia restoration which are worth watching.

Sounds like he did steal it at £4K in this market, passing on to you for the similar amount does not count….. Though I suspect he would have been into some real money if he had to pay for the work you are doing to it.

Are you aiming to go to either Goodwood or Beta 50th with it?

Peter

Hi Peter, I agree - most of the Youtube vids are pretty poor and not worth watching.  I would like to do a more personal review & drive on the car, as the Beta had a lot of significance in my motoring history.
I did think about the 50th meeting but it clashes with other stuff in my diary.  I might be able to show up for one of the days however - it would be great to meet everyone.  I will have to do a few more road trips meanwhile, to make sure that the Spyder will make the journey!

This is the kind of video I like to make:
https://youtu.be/RFCFJkDzdXQ

Another problem if anyone has any suggestions?  The top mounting bolt on the rear offside caliper carrier will not budge and the strut body fouls the bolt head so its impossible to get a ring spanner or socket onto it!
I don’t want to round off the bolt so after several hours of spraying with penetrating wd40 and struggling with a spanner, I am now thinking about grinding off a bit of the flange on the strut body which is in the way!
Anyone found a way round this?

You need to undo and remove one strut bolt and rotate the hub, that then gives you clearance, and yes just done this on the HPE.

Peter

Hi Chris

Nice video and oddly that Alfa is the one I would choose.

Peter

Great video Chris, and your production techniques are really good.
The car, of course, was the star.

regards
Nigel

Thanks Gents, it was a special car for me growing up, so that video was an homage to the 60’s & 70’s and all the beautiful cars which were designed during that golden age.
My background is in photography and digital music production, so video editing was an easy transition!
I will be making a video about the Spyder for my channel too, as the Beta is also a touchstone of my youth!

Caliper is off and now the next problem!
Piston will not retract far enough, despite screwing in as far as it will go.
Do I need to unhook the handbrake cable or something?  :'(

So long as there is no tension coming from the handbrake to the back of the calliper, it should be ok, if there is, then yes you should need to slacken the handbrake cable. If that does not sort it, not sure why you are still having and issue (crud build up on the piston?)

Peter

Thanks Peter, it’s strange - there is no tension on the handbrake cable and when I push the handbrake lever, the piston moves out and back in again smoothly and the piston itself is clean and shiny, so I doubt there is anything blocking it’s movement.
It simply won’t adjust back into the caliper any further.  Winding it out by screwing anti- clockwise, it moves out faster than when screwing it back in, which is quite slow in comparison, like the screw thread is lower-geared in that direction. Impossible though surely?
The caliper seems to be working fine but I just can’t retract the piston enough to get the carrier around the new disc & pads. Grrr.... >:(

Chris,
Just to note that the rear discs and pads are thinner than the front,
10.1mm and 7mm respectively, new.

The piston on the rear does not fully retract like the front, it remains
at about 4mm protruding from the body of the caliper.

Nigel

Good points Nigel also the screw mechanism is not fixed into the piston so it can rotate independently

Peter

Thanks Nigel - I am fitting Green Stuff pads and I haven’t measured them but they seem thicker than 7mm.... Also, the piston is sticking out more than 4mm, more like 15mm in total - see pic below!

Now that I see your photo I got the protrusion estimate wrong!

It should go in a bit more than that but not much more.
I'm not sure what that tool is you're using, but I use a flat-blade screwdriver
to wind in the piston.
As Peter said, make absolutely sure that the handbrake lever is fully back, and that
it moves freely.

One other item inside the piston is a spring that wraps around the self-adjust screw.
This spring, with a tag on it, acts to prevent the self-adjust mechanism from
unwinding itself by gripping the screw in one direction and allowing free movement in the other.
 The tag can break off causing the self-adjust to malfunction.
 This may be causing your issue, but I can't recall exactly its
relationship to the winding in screw.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel - the other point which I haven't mentioned yet, is that the other side went together perfectly, with no issues whatsoever.  The piston on this side looks slightly different to the other side however, so I'm now wondering if a non-standard caliper has been fitted?  I guess I'll have to dismantle the other side again and compare the two....  ::)

I have a square-section screwdriver shank which fits perfectly into the slot. The piston keeps rotating but doesn’t retract any further, which is why I’m wondering if the mechanism is broken / misaligned.
The other side became stiff and wouldn’t turn any more when it reached it’s most retracted point.

Chris,
Another thought is that maybe the caliper has been reassembled incorrectly
in the past.

Below is from the Haynes manual and may help your checking. It gives you an idea
of where the piston should be when retracted. #3 is the spring I referred to
above.

Thanks Nigel - I have the Haynes manual but the narrative (and the diagrams) aren’t that clear unfortunately!  ;D.  After watching a very clear video of a virtually identical Delta rear brake strip, there really isn’t much that could be wrong. I wondered if the piston had been wound out too far and the retaining spring tab had popped out of its retaining slot / hole (I assume there is one?) meaning the piston was unable to return to its innermost position.
I might unscrew the piston until it comes off the screw and then try to re-thread it and try again.
Otherwise, it looks like its a strip down fault-finding job. So much for my “quick-brake-overhaul-and-back on-the-road” fantasy!

So. Having been in a position where I was unable to bring my Spyder to the 50th celebration because I had a seriously binding rear offside caliper (wheel too hot to touch linda bad!) and left with no time to get it fixed I have now had the work done.
Thank you for your earlier post UncleJam for Brake Caliper Solutions in Barwell.
I took them to BCS Wednesday lunch time and collected them today at lunch time. Pistons, seals, boots and bleed nipples all replaced. Calipers, and carriers cleaned and painted. £184.80 all in including VAT and I am very happy with the end result and the personal service was excellent.
Run by Sarah with 20 plus years experience they solved the periphery I had expediently.
The price included extracting a bleed nipple which had sheared off and one which was stuck solid.
They also sell refurbishing components if you want to do it yourself and have refurbished Beta calipers before they did mine.
Based on my experience I would definitely use them again.
Friendly,  competitive and meeting Sarah gave me confidence in their work.

Thanks for that, Cliifford.

I have a number of rear brake calipers that I've disassembled and got new parts for, but am dreading reassembling them. I think I'll give them a call and see if they'd be willing to reassemble them for me.

I am sure they would be flexible and be able to help you out. Sarah was very positive and helpful.

Sounds good Clifford, thanks for the info - that seems like a good price to me.  I struggled with my offside caliper off and on for the last few weeks and finally decided to bite the bullet and take it off the car for a full strip down.  No, I didn’t know what I was doing but after watching an Integrale caliper strip video, I have done it and it’s fiddly and messy but not too hard actually. The problem was indeed what I suspected - the rear spring mechanism has a small tang which locates in a hole in the caliper body and this had come out, effectively blocking the piston’s return.  I am waiting for a banjo bolt bleed nipple as mine is stuck fast and I don’t want to force it and snap it off.  Hopefully once reassembled, my braking issues will be behind me, otherwise BCS are beckoning!

Just a point regarding the greenstuff pads. They may need the protective layer EBC put on them in production sanding off to get them in place if new discs are fitted. There certainly isn't much room.

OK thanks - I've got the banjo bolt bleed nipple fitted now, so when I've (finally!) got the caliper reassembled, I'll see how tight everything is.
I'm pretty sure that by the time I have the car back together, the rain will have set in for good and I'll have to wait for a rare dry day to drive the car!