Lancia Beta Forum

Beta HPE on Top Gear

A couple of weeks ago BetaBoyz, through Club Lancia Sport were asked to find 3 Beta’s for a Top Gear feature on Lancia being filmed at the  Black Mountain Pass,Wales

Cars also Featuring:

-Fulvia
-Stratos in Al Italia livery
-Stratos road version   
-Flaminia 
-Aurelia -  B24 convertible
-037  in Martini livery 
-Delta Integrale   
-Gamma Coupe   
-Monte Carlo   
-Thema 8:32
-Monte Carlo

We were asked to find: Beta Coupe, Trevie and a Monte Carlo, and found 3 perfect examples

Sadly in the end they only used the Monte Carlo
We later found out they found a their own HPE a Silver 1982 Reg no: WPY 514Y (anyone know the car)

And have been told it was very rusty )-:
Checking with DVLA Tax database the Date of Liability was 28 06 1993
So it’s not been on the road for 16 years.

It gets worse apparently the HPE apparently was blown to bits, and yet another Marina was given the piano treatment
   
   
Links:
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/mytime/Gear-drops-secret-episode-Neath/article-1352148-detail/article.html (http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/mytime/Gear-drops-secret-episode-Neath/article-1352148-detail/article.html)

http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?p=260719 (http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?p=260719)

http://www.corsa-c.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=237010 (http://www.corsa-c.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=237010)

I think the show will be screened end Nov/early Dec 09

Sounds like this could very much break or make the return of lancia in the UK ::) If they ever decide to return that is. As ever, another clarkson + beta = bad publicity  >:(

The photoshoot was kept reasonably quiet for quite some time but there are always
spoilers.
We were warned that the Gamma belts problem and the Beta rust would of course
be raised and probably some other less well known errors, but I think generally it
will be more good news rather than bad.

Geoff

isn't the bbc supposed to show a balanced view so that means that every time a Ford is shown they should mention strut tops failing on old escorts, 70s rust when any  japanese car is mentioned (and dangerous brake fade and tyres made of imitation teflon) subframes and cutting out in the rain when they show a mini (well it was only 50 years ago....) I suspect they may not mention that the vast majority of betas were not affected and rusted a lot less than alfas at the time plus the ground breaking beta suspension design...if they want to drop pianos onto marinas though fair enough and blowing up a terminally gone hpe is not such a disaster but as one of the most practical sporting cars of it's age it didn't deserve it shame about the spares that might have been useful though....  these days if I mention I have a Beta to anyone and they used to have one they almost always get a glazed expression and say what a wonderful car it was

Given the stick they give marinas, beetles and others I thik they're pretty balanced. Lets face it ours cars may not have been as bad as they were made out to be by the press but early Betas were pretty shocking.

After the last hatchet job clarkson did on Lancia, I wouldn't hold your breath. >:(

Brian

well agreed some had bad corrosion mostly s1 berlinas, I can still remember seeing a s1 berlina in the late seventies with rust blistering out all over I can also remember a Fiat 124 coupé that was even worse and not so old at the time (plus every alfa made in the seventies datsun toyota etc....) but no one drags up Fiat's rust history any more. in the seventies we didn't need a scrappage scheme because all cars, irrespective of make, bio degraded in less than 10 years!  More to the point no one really acknowledges the amazing dynamics of the beta compared with the contemporary competition and the much copied rear suspension (how Fiat must regret that they didn't bother to patent it!!)

Actually, I think the last Lancia bit by JC (Sunday Times) was from last years Stanford Hall, where he raved
about just every Lancia he saw, and of course he admits the Fulvia was one of the prettiest cars ever.
bit surprised the LMC didn't want to get involved though.

I wouldn't disagree with that. Lancia's weren't much worse than their contemparies for rust and were way ahead in design and engineering - Lancia just made the mistake of admitting that the cars rusted.

In fact about the only cars from the 70's that didn't rust before they left the production line were the Allegro and the Chevette !

I can't see much common ground between the 'old fogeys' (to quote an editorial or two) of the LMC and Clarkson. It wouldn't surprise me if they read as far as the words Top Gear and then binned the e-mail ! Besides some of the cars featured are post October 69 - a period the LMC has the odd blind spot about !

True in many cases :D, I feel the main reason Club Lancia Sport has grown so quickly is due to the fact, all is equal and welcome, whether its a Lambda or Delta.

I have no issue with TG blowing up a 26 year old rusty HPE, it's not like it's a new car that they are destroying just to denegrate a manufacturer. Some of us can see it for what it is... Humourous entertainment.  The Beta has long been a discontinued model and I'd be the first to admit that there are some right sheds out there! I don't think thes things should be taken too seriously.

As for peoples thoughts on the LMC attitudes and CLS I find this all very interesting!

I'm looking forward to the Lancia special, I doubt it will have much sway over what Fiat / Lancia decide to do over rejoining the UK market.  The rust problem did happen 30 years ago and things have changed in the motor industry. If anything the global recession will have more of an impact on the timing.

But the Marina deserves the piano treatment IMO !

I'm more concerned about the pianos :D

I'd be annoyed if they tried to hoodwink the audience again into thinking the Beta they have got hold of is a typical example. 

Remember TG Clarkson and the apology they had to make in 1994 to Arthur Mead and his Beta saloon?

whatever happened to that car by the way? to be fair it could well be a typical HPE (very rusty after 25 years)but when did you last see a sierra of the same vintage... exactly all rusted away to oblivion so it's no disgrace to be rusty after 25  or so years is it?

Many old cars go on to become rusty old bangers and when they reach that point in their life, so why not go out in a blaze of glory as a bit of a laugh?

I had a old Cortina one that I hated with a passion because it was such a pig to start in the mornings, eventually I forced it into second while doing "a fair lick of speed" and dumped the clutch... the gearbox let go in a most spectaculay manner :-)  shortly after that I part owned a purple Prisma 1600, no matter how hard we drove that car it would just not give up (picture valves bouncing off the underside of the bonnet), we absolutely thrashed it mercilessly but it just wouldn't die. But we had a huge amount of fun trying.  It doesn't mean that I don't like Lancias though and it does't mean I'd do the same to my pride and joy.

I also once watched my friend drive/smash an Allegro Vanden Plas through an old RAF wooden billet hut (in a Bodie and Doyle / Starsky and Hutch style).  I guess the Allegro owners club wouldn't appreciate it but we thought it was highly amusing at the time.

Moral is, old rusty cars are what they are - old rusty cars that are either going to be crushed - or in this case blown up by TG then crushed.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have given an old banger a memorable exit.  ( Thats why banger racing is such a hoot! )

Anyway, lets see the program before passing judgement on the TG team.

I'm not passing judgement ..yet but I will be unhappy if they pull the rusty Lancia card on a car that is of an age that any well used example would be rusty, after driving lancias since '83 the joke has worn too thin in the media. nothing against them blowing up a rusty hpe so long as it is beyond redemption it's the reason they are likely to give for it that worries me if they want to blow up the car that killed them in the UK I think they should blow up a Dedra what an excuse of a lancia that was (before anyone goes on about that I had a dedra turbo for 5 years it was a lovely car in many ways, although the most unreliable one I ever had, but it just didn't handle like a lancia it was a bit of a let down to say the least)

Just seen clip for the new top gear series, looks like a green coupe in bad condition is being driven, and i presume the same car later on, is shown on fire ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R135OMKjOlg

I'm not sure why the lanciasport brigade are so happy about being associated with that lot but I suppose that we'll have to wait to judge. Is the Beta yet gain to become the laughing stock orphan? Let's hope that it's all very much tongue in cheek and that they blow up/squash/crush/piano another marina instead ;D

I wonder if the green Coupe used in TG was that 1300 that was seen on Ebay for absolute ages for £550?? 

It was down Littlehamption way IIRC & was parked up next to what looked like an early Integrale.

 

can't tell if it's a 1.3 but no sunroof so not likely to be a 2 litre could have had a good scuttle though and reasonable sills without those damn drain tubes :D

After looking at the trailer and the various web pages containing location shots I would hazard a guess that Clarkson and his lackey Hammond are going to say "look at these fabulous world championship winning rally cars that Lancia produced, and look at this heap of junk" referring to the Beta. Then they will go about their defamation of the Beta by driving and "Rallying" them, only for the cars to fail miserably due to the TG team's deliberate sabotage or lack of preparation; and for the "rally Lancias" to perform admirably.

It's just my opinion and I could be wrong, but Clarkson is so unoriginal and predictable that I doubt that he can think any further than that. I hope he surprises me but I'm not holding my breath.

and they tend to forget that the beta provided the basic design building blocks for the Integrale, thema, alfa 164,saab 9000 and suspension wise far more cars than you can shake a stick at from many countries

That depth of knowledge doesn't sell TV though...

But sabotaging and setting one on fire?  That will.

Whatever happens, it's likely the Lancia brand gets some long-forgotten exposure outside of our playing field, and that's a good thing, no?

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4005/image4raw.jpg)

Why not wait until the programme is aired?

BTW - if you are irritated by Jeremy Clarkson so much why watch him?  Theres plenty of other programmes on TV?  If you watch TG because of the cars then there has to be some give and take - they cannot please all of the people all of the time!  Also worth remembering that these days it is a "Light Entertainment" show. 

TG was a car show............... back in the days of William Wollard !!!

Seems that some may have already made up their minds before the full show has been seen and started spreading the ( un-necessary IMHO) doom and gloom.

                *****  I'm so paranoid that now I think it's a huge BBC Conspiracy !!!!    ******

 Is "Pete" a BBC secret agent ?

   Did he join this forum (recently) to stir up some Lancisti / Beta emotions prior to airing the show claiming to hate JC when actually he's providing the inside info on what Beta owners are saying and thus providing Jeremy with some comedy material?

  Also, I think I heard that the BBC are spending our license fees on Ferrari 599's for everyone on a salary over £100, 000 and Dacia Sanderos for everybody under the £100,000 salary threshold. Whether they can drive or not.

  Finally, its a little known fact outside of the BBC, that Richard Hammond was actually born on "Fraggle Rock"



And if you haven't already guessed.... it's Friday and I'm having a laugh !
   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

My dad does the same everytime he watches it, says how stupid it is (which it is sometimes) but carrys on watching every second. Its an entertainment program, if you want a more suitable car program watch fifth gear and forget top gear exists?
I'm going to keep it  :-X for now ;) If its anything like the Botswana episode it'll be hilarious ;D

yep 'any publicity is good publicity' so they say I just hate the thought of the smug grins on the faces of all the LMC old codgers with their 'proper' Lancias if the prog is toned that way

and remember the last Beta on Top Gear was the Botswana one and that wouldn't die

which in my view proves a point, anyway you're all safe 'cause they've got a Gamma............

nuf said  ::)

the Rallying Lancias on the CLS stand at MPH confirm the essence of the marque and this
should overide any negative opinions AND I really don't care what anyone thinks of my choice
of cars as they're my choice and everyone knows I'm completely mad, I mean who else would
fit a full Luke 3" race harness in a Gamma and try to bend the exhaust to fit twin turbos and
if you're still reading this you really should find something better to do with your time I haven't
read it and I wrote it, oh and all opinions are mine unless otherwise stated by someone who's
opinion I've borrowed, etc etc....

 :) I too am sure that it will be another feast of pure entertainment which is why I watch the programme, however I only offered my opinion on the format the show might take, I have no hidden agenda.

imho fifth gear needs a serious makeover.  :)

yes very rarely watch it whereas top gear is entertainment at its best, to be honest I wasn't even too upset over the cardboard magnet and Beta berlina programme all those years ago....but at that time I owned a Flavia ;D

this is funny

found a website with a model of Clarkson's Botswana Beta.............in LEGO!!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2537772968_069d8cd872_m.jpg)

http://lugnuts-cars.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html






 

We know our Betas are great cars so does it really matter what Top Gear do?  It's a proper 'headturner' car and now more recognised for what it is thanks to Top Gear.  If anything it makes people even more interested to see an unrestored rust free example like my coupe. My car responds to all the misplaced rust reputation in the best way possible.  In reality I suspect Clarkson has a soft spot for the Beta, whatever happens, so let's maintain a sense of humour. 

On the LMC front, I have enjoyed the well organised Goodwood track days with the coupe.  I recommend the experience, taking advantage of the great engine, all round independent suspension, all round discs and 5 speed box!   

You hadn't heard that Fifth Gear has been canned then?

He does.  Remember his newspaper column the day after the Standford Hall visit?  He raved about the silver Coupe he saw (wasn't it Tony's?)

Which proves my point I suppose. There was a time when Top Gear was dire and off-air for a long time only to be resurrected in its current format.

Good lead into next weeks show by J. C. In this weeks Top Gear, so far so good !

The fact that they are asking who has made the most 'great cars' is a positive sign.

Looking forward to next weeks show even more. :-)

Yes probably very good news for you but........

they didn't call their car MattNoVat did they ?
and then they added a silly moustache didn't they ?

I think a strongly worded letter to the times is in order.

geoff 'thecolonel' (the one with the moustache)

Ha ha !

Geoff I never thought of that ! How ironic :-)

Maybe you have made an impression on JC and it's subliminally making it's way into the show!

But at least you have been immortalized in Top Gear history!
Now that is cool !!

The headlights and the seatbelts in the "geoff" car on Top Gear came from a Fiat Panda (the original 'classic' Panda) so geoff's Italianess was maintained.  ;D

Someone say Panda?   ;D

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8373/fiatpandaelettrapruhled.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6927/pandaelettra1ae9.jpg)

I will be going to the Top Gear Screening tomorrow  ;D  ;)

does anyone want to know the outcome  ???

don't want to spoil it for anyone

Cheers Tony,

no just tell us all if it's unmissable or to be avoided!

Just make sure JC asks you which car you've got  :P

   We have yet to see the Top Gear show in question but it is really popular down here. I agree with the advice to not panic. Our local media has also rubbished cars over the years but if you are an enthusiast that rubbishing matters not.
    The dreadful Leyland P76, the early Volvo oileaters, recent Ford models, many Korean el-cheapos have all received the bad reviews that they probably deserved.
     The Lancias that have survived are usually in good shape because somebody loved them. Luckilly I have one of the best.

Here Here Kev !  Well said

Lets all just watch the programme and see what the outcome reveals. I like many others don't care if we Beta lovers take yet another knock- assuming we do, what can happen apart from a bit of banter from your mates and collegues- nothing that hasn't been said before or will be related to again.
Only positives will come from this and raise the models profile. Have Marina owners all got rid of their cars? Have all caravanners disappeared into the woodwork? I very much doubt it. Neither will we.
The good thing about Betas was they were always very good cars and gained only praise throughout production, test reporters loved em and remember 10,000 were sold in the UK in '78, 3 times the number of all BMW's.
Lancia were their own worst enemy at the time in recalling the cars, they should like everyone else in a similar position (and there were many others) have kept quiet. This is the sole reason the Express/Thats Life shot Lancia- The executive brand- down and brought down the companies reputation. It just so happened that the Beta was Lancias main product at the time and became the scapegoat, the butt of all jokes.
Marina owners never had a good car to get excited about but they still enthuse about them.
We've got a great product and despite all the bumpers falling off and flames I should imagine the parting quip will be positive. (Fingers crossed).

not giving any show details away, just a couple of studio pic's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/sets/72157622875982688/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/sets/72157622875982688/)

cheers
Tony,

looking forward to the finished programme,
I may even BUY a bottle of London Dry......

;-})

Who's is the UK registered new Delta ?

it's the guy who used to have a lybra as usual memory like a sieve can't remember his name it's a 190bhp diesel but it has had it's ecu upgraded to well over 200 it looks massive compared to a beta berlina 

Stu Wilson has the New Delta and I like it

I bet - if they ever bring it to the UK (last I heard plans were shelved due to the economy) it's top of my company car list, odd looks from the front, great from most other angles and hopefully without the bone hard ride of the BM / Audi brigade. The only downside seems to be it's a bit big and needs to go on a diet.

Does it....   8)

Forget the Delta name and the comparison with Beta...

It's 7cm wider and just 6cm shorter than Gamma Berlina!  And we used to think them a bit large at one time...

Well, getting back to the original thread I thought the Lancia feature was very good actually.  Mostly positive, the obvious history around the Beta and a few facts (all the Lancia firsts).

I laughed out loud as much as I would on any other Top Gear show.  So it cannot have been that bad, plus I came away from watching it without thinking I will be ridiculed endlessly about my cars or my fondness of Lancias by my petrolhead mates.

Great stuff - good to see the Marque get some exposure  ;D

I thought the alfa V6 sounded dreadfuly flat in that Hawk though.

Unlike the first shot of the Fulvia which was spine tingling.

EDIT: Looks like it was good publicity though - 11 members and 13 guests online as I type this !

Following on from Matt, I thought it was another brilliant top gear show, I thought it was generally hilarious and mostly true, and had to laugh when the bonnet came flying off the coupe as well as every other panel.
Clarkson picked a great rally car, the HPE of course  ;) did he know of the success of the group n rally HPE's finishing 2nd and 3rd in 1982, i'd like to think so 8)
Shame they had to call the kit car a Lancia, but some positive stuff.
Lancia, the greatest car manufacturer in the wwwwoooooooorrrrllllldd  ;D

I enjoyed that....more than i expected to anyway.  A decent amount of time dedicated to Lancia. Even if the beta was'nt portrayed in the most positive light I can take what was said on the chin.

it was a typical entertaining show didn't see the point of the hawk which didn't appear to be a well sorted example and they seem to forget that Fiat were in charge when the 'grale gamma 037 and so on were produced but that's artistic licence. I think they should have put the Stig in a Marina and a Beta berlina just to prove how far ahead lancia were in those days or maybe not ....perhaps a Cortina just to prove their less than educated audience that Ford have made plenty of crap

actually they weren't that negative about the Beta they basically said everything lancia did was brilliant if not always 100% successful and they were all beautiful they didn't exclude any of the  cars from that. They kind of forgot that the monte is actually a Fiat, even down to its chassis number, but one that Lancia eventually put right after inheriting the bad bits at the last moment

i agree there was a lot of truth in what they said but overall it made me feel proud to be a lancia nut!

by the way i want that fulvia it was a stunning car!

I can give you Marks number but, I don't think he'll be selling anytime soon.

Fiat may have been in charge but the Gamma had a Lancia engine unlike anything that followed ;-})

Seriously though, good programme for the marque, I liked the fact that whatever you do to a Beta
it will just keep on going

With thanks to Al (the mod from the Evo-Forum) here's the link to the programme http://delta.hi.fi/kuvat/VIDEO/9405623905-93162.avi (http://delta.hi.fi/kuvat/VIDEO/9405623905-93162.avi)

After seeing the program and checking with DVLA the green Coupe was the 1300 from Littlehampton.

I looked at that car as a potential track car / parts donor!

Great surprise to see Lancia as a marque featured so upbeat! Shocked, in fact  :o

It's a shame that bites of the Beta script were lifted straight out of Clarkson's 1998 Unleashed on Cars video word-for-word..

Regarding the Fulvia and the price being higher than the E-Type - yes, but inflated values were true for many imports due to the duty at the time. Bit naughty not to explain that point.

The Airship had me in stitches.  I know Cardington well so it was a pleasant surprise  ;D

I'm off to buy a Marina quick, before the Pianos get them all....
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4147480886_240f8a834e_o.jpg)
Date of Liability  01 06 1993 

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/4147481532_9a039a9f44_o.jpg)
Oh look at that gas bottle they planted in there go!   :P

No qualms with the programme at all, very light hearted and as always with TG whenever they rave about anything, they always throw in a couple of negatives i.e. the dreaded R word. But hey so what I only got positive jibes from my mates/collegues and no grief at all. If anything they now all understand/believe? what I have been saying all along that Lancia's are great. :) :) :)

Stu Wilson from Cumbria owns the nuovo Delta, he gave me a lift in it- very nice and powerful and he still owns the Lybra SW and a Fulvia & Y10 too!

should that be the nuovo nuovo delta? the beta and gamma have been over taken over by the original nuovo delta as the forgotten lancia I had a HPE turbo for 7 years probably in most respects the best car I ever had  so underrated it was and still is a crime

Had to laugh this morning, saw two people taking photos of the Gamma in the driveway

now on BBCiplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4z1y/Top_Gear_Series_14_Episode_3/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4z1y/Top_Gear_Series_14_Episode_3/)

Gentlemen ....... did any of you watch the same program i did?
No ..... it was just a pile of poop that ruined Lancia's reputation (alright it did to a point, thanks to Ester Rantzen etc but they still sold a lot of Betas!) was the impression i got from the program.
The Beta was treated as filth!
Two examples - coupe and HPE - also wrecked!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am very surprised at you guys!
I obviously don't have very thick skin.

The Aprilia bit was a disgrace! i have worked on one of these, it has a rubber seal between the front and rear door to keep the weather out, was it not also the first monocoque production car.
Ahh the Gospel according to Top Gear.
Its also right hand drive because the Italians drove on the same side as we did (well actually both) .... owner informed me of that.
On one side in town and the other driving in the country .... don't know which.

Lancia put the Stratos's (pronounced straartos by Jeremy) oil pressure warning light in front of the driver - says it all about Ferraris engine doesn't it.

The owner of the Hawk must be fuming as to the way his car was portrayed - i would kill Jeremy if he drove my car with the metal side wiping my windscreen .... bet it was all faked for the cameras - like the Beta not starting and later catching fire.

Montecarlo slated on the brakes (Lancia just removed the servo) and made it a death trap, Gamma blows up if you turn the steering wheel ... did i miss anything?

Oh and the word Desicsion .... is this correct or a spelling mistake?

I did not want to watch this program because i knew what was going to happen i had read this discussion here and assumed it was not bad.... on telling the Aprilia owner i was advised to watch and judge for myself ........ wish i hadn't now.

Oh and the rodent that likes to bury his head in the ground then goes on to complain the Integrale only came in left hand drive ...... i don't blame Lancia for that at all ... that's what i would have done to spite the British (sorry!) especially when they tried to be honest and admit they had made a mistake and been treated the way they had - i am originally from the Mediterranean area so can understand the Italian temperament.

I mean just because other companies would pretend that there was no problem ... that's un-British in itself, or so i was taught at school .... isn't it? does not mean to say they should have done the same .... if your neighbors are thieves does that make it alright for you to be one?

If this upsets you all then i am sorry, bet i will get a lot of flack for this post.

I bet the LMC won't be as forgiving on this program.

I know Nico (the owner of the Grp 4 replica) and chairman of the SEC were trying to ban the BBC from using any of the footage and now they are talking about raising a case with OFCOM.

For the most part TG didn't say anything that we had not heard before, most of my petrolhead friends were actually very complimentary about Lancia and the direction the programme took.  We all agreed that while it was not perfect (and I think we'd all agree on this forum that no Lancia is perfect!) that on the whole it came across as pretty positive.  But life ain't perfect and sometimes you have to take a few honest facts on board, or do you want to spend your life looking through rose tinted glasses?

It saddens me a little that so far people who did not like the show have only focused on the negative points, can I gently remind people that there were plenty of positives:

First, the point of the feature was that in TG's opinion, LANCIA had made the MOST GREAT CARS of any manufacturer!

Second, they thought Lancia always produced beautiful cars - including the Beta Coupe which they did say..!!  Also, they demonstrated how indestructible the Beta is, again in the usual TG humourous way.

They praised the Fulvia for its looks and also the MonteCarlo, the Integrale for its 6 consecutive rallying wins which has never been repeated and the 037 for being the only 2WD to beat the mighty Quattro's ( thats no mean feat).

We all know the green Coupe and the HPE were set ups, bits falling off and flames from under the bonnet (from a gas bottle) etc etc - we knew that the TG team would pull something like that as thats the nature of the show and I don't hear too many people complaining about the Marina getting "Piano'ed" again so I think those that are being offended are being a little 'over-sensitive'.

If you read the Stratos Forum then you can read some of the facts over what went on with Nico's car, but between the Morris Marina club and the SEC going "ape" TG will have plenty of ammunition if they want to continue to make fun of what are essentially some very very small clubs. I do hope that the BetaBoyz do not go down that route.

I thought that a lot of these digs weren't meant to be too serious just to show what an eccentric but brilliant brand lancia is, they killed two betas but I suspect both were terminal anyway, the tv screen hides a lot of sins. I don't know the history of the hawk bit but was that not meant to be a lesson on the erratic nature of kit cars rather than a dig at a particular car (or lancia) although I can understand how the owner would be upset. I think most of the great unwashed would see this as a positive promotion of Lancia as they will not analyse it in minute detail merely watching it as light entertainment like we all do on any other week

I think if you dance with the devil then you should be prepared for the consequences. Everyone knows what TG is all about so you shouldn't really expect them to portray everything in a good light.

My dad bought his first Beta after trading in his Marina TC so TG was particularly hard for him to watch! Incidentally his Beta was one that had 'the' problem and got quite a good pay out that was then used to buy a newer one.

I actually enjoyed the programme but probably like most real Lancia enthusiasts concentrated on the superb visual content rather than the audio which was typical TG.

Well i watched the program again to find the part about the Beta being described as beautiful.
Well i couldn't find it - the BEYTER was said in disgust by Clarkson - like some illegitimate little sprog born to the gentry and kept hidden away in the cellar or attic.

No where did i hear that although the early cars had rust it was still a good car and outsold BMW etc, etc, three independent  people (not on this forum) have agreed with me it was a negative portrayal.

What i did remember was;-
This is a collection of art, of madness, of brilliance.
This is a collection of pornography.
This is a collection of Lancia's.

You know what? - not one immaculate Beta amongst them, not one being filmed on a country being driven along with the rodent going on about its great road holding, handsome looks - which it does have .... what a shame about the rust!
Guy Croft mentioned him boring his pants off going on his dog and his girlfriend - nice one Guy you do have a sense of humour after all, i stand corrected.

I don't view the world through rose tinted spectacles - Enid Blyton, turkey sandwiches with lashings of ginger beer.
I also don't see things in black and white either .... i see things in shades of gray - very dark shades at that.

At the beginning of this merged topic its mentioned that immaculate examples of the Beta range (including a Trevi) were supplied but they only used the Monte ....... why?
Because they want to perpetuate the myth that the car we all have ...... was sh*t .... make no bones about it.

I like Marinas - had two actually and was sickened by seeing them demolish yet another one.

Maybe it was a positive thing for Lancia - the world finding out they won the world rally championship ten times - but they only showed the cars with the street cred in some sort of positive light.

That's the Aprilia, Fulvia, 037, Stratos (straartos) gamma, Thema (because it had a Ferrari lump in it) Delta Integrale.
By the way the Hawk aint a Lancia so it does not count - but felt badly for the owner ... especially read about it on the other forums.

Now these cars have their own "Clique" if you will and don't need us to to promote awareness - one of the things the BetaBoyz i met are trying to do as well as produce parts etc, etc.

So whats the point of this forum if apathy is going to creep in and you don't stand up for this car - they actually have you believing what they portrayed!

Anyway - i will leave it at that before i say something i regret.

I thought I stood alone at not liking the way they protrayed Lancia on Top Gear as I originally only saw positive reports about the programme. I so much agree with you hutch6610 and I am glad to see I am not alone....  ;D

sorry if this is a long quote but I couldn't find a snippet from your post to use, I would agree that the programme was a little bit disappointing but in getting a rant on about the treatment of the Beta you are missing the point that it's primarily an entertainment show with car content. I still believe that to the general public it looked like a very positive view on all Lancias, perhaps excepting the latest Delta. It's never meant to be a 100% factual programme (do you remember Top Gear when it was?...my god that was bad!) as Lancisti we are all prone to over analyse the programme in a way that ordinary folk will not on the whole it was good for Lancia and not such a bad press for Betas, as I've seen commented elsewhere Alfa Romeo got off worse a while back as did those budget supercars they bought. I do agree  that the Marina joke has run its course though however crap they are it's a shame to eradicate the final few survivors

interesting comment on pronunciation I think that Clarkson is half way correct as it's not beeetah as we Brits say but baytah we are rubbish at lancia names look at thema we pronounce it as it appears to be spelt but it is actually pronounced tay-ma we even pronounce Lancia wrong saying landseer when it is something like laan-cha

I really have to agree (near-word-for-word!) with rossocorsa   8)

I said Lan-cha a few times at NEC and was given a puzzled look ;D


I don't see much point of ranting.  This is a public place and we will be labelled loony.  Please, please nobody write into TG.  If they receive one ranty letter of demands, next week they will play it for laughs and plonk a Piano on a Beta.  Twice.

Be thankful this marque of ours got some upbeat exposure - a PR dream! ;D
I feel that any programme lifting the profile of Italian brands is to be applauded, no?

Ignore the Beta cliche and smile, knowingly.  Clarkson and TG can't really go back on their 1994 'Arthur Mead' episode, or the spot on the 1998 Unleashed on Cars DVD as they're both on YouTube.  Ford owners must be stewing moreso, as the voting of Lancia in the programme was obviously tongue in cheek - it was a throwback to Clarkson's piece from 1994.  From reading the LMC and CLS posts, so very much was left on the cutting room floor.

Maybe Lancia enthusiasts have come out of it as idiosyncratic and a bit 'cool' after the programme? I've had a few approaches myself since it was aired, all favourable.

Clarkson wrote favourably in his Times column in 2008 regarding Lancia and how much he liked Tony Harrison's car.  That column doesn't play to the masses for laughs and ratings anything like the level the TV programme needs.



Get on youtube and watch some, say, pre-1995 episodes of the original Top Gear programme. You just couldn't sell that format today - which is why Fifth Gear, Driven, Pulling Power etc have been dropped.  It's a sign of the times.


Maybe, if and when Delta arrives in the UK, the public will be better informed and ready for a decent review!

Personally I thought it was reasonable - after all it was about Lancia as a whole and not beta's. 

It could have been worse - at least they included the Beta as a Lancia and didn't try to suggest it was just a re-badged Fiat.  Yes, it could have been better and they could have described the Beta as the Italian car bargain that it is.

As an aside my car has a plaque and a certificate saying that it was on the Top Gear stand at a show at the NEC in the 90's so they haven't destroyed every Beta they've had their hands on!

You lot are lucky - I've still got a Gamma so I'm a complete outcast.

I really don't care what anyone else thinks about my choice of cars, I choose to drive a Lancia
that's different from the run of the mill everyday euroboxes that the modern man is stuck with.
I'm glad there are only a few Gammas around and that I'm part of a somewhat eccentric group.

I also miss my HPE acually I miss all five of them and I'd love to have one as a day-to-day car
and one day I will, regardless of what anyone says. (I will say I DON'T want a Marina)

Awww.  Don't you feel sorry for it, a teensy bit?

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3051/mainanana.gif) :D

Errrr,   Nope  ;-})

did I miss something hasn't the gamma been uplifted from mechanical liability to one of the seven truly great cars that Lancia built? even elevated above the aurelia and lambda  :o

Hi New to forum,  I have a Beta Coupe and believe it is a fantastic car...... Have to agree that the Beta got a bit of a kicking on the show, BUT Lancia in general was shows in quite a positive light,  which means that most of the general public will only remember that Lancia's made great cars??
Personally I have only had positive comments and feedback about the show?????

[/quote]

did I miss something hasn't the gamma been uplifted from mechanical liability to one of the seven truly great cars that Lancia built? even elevated above the aurelia and lambda  :o
[/quote]

Yes BUT, look at who said it, I mean, would you buy a second hand car from him ?? ;-})

Top Gear's Lancia special, 1994

1994 Lancia TV special - Jeremy Clarkson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4R1dxyQL1o#)

Is Arthur Mead still with us?


Clarkson's view on the Lancia Beta, taken from 'Unleashed on Cars', 1998

Lancia Beta - by Jeremy Clarkson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QtuOw3qsw0#)

I forgot one thing they missed re pronunciation that could have been another piss take ....

thema is tay-ma
thesis is tay-sis
so theta is......yes really I heard an Italian pronounce it once
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:OdqBwi5ihwYQfM:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_njaM6TM3RbQ/Sbj2D1ZGraI/AAAAAAAAAIE/7Ql6Zz2MZV8/s400/Potato.jpg)

Can we all get over this subject? Only us Lancisti & Beta mob keep going on about it. The general TG viewing public will remember that Lancia was voted the producer of the greatest cars ever :) :) :). They will debate this or disagree this until the cows come home, but they won't remember the particular Beta aspect or that the nuovo nuovo Delta was slated.
The older of this TG viewing generation will unfortunately rightly or wrongly always remember the Beta for rust ???, or its great driving abilities ;D, the younger hardly know what a Lancia is, never mind a Beta and they will have missed the point.
Lancia has long been forgotten by the public, but TG along with recent praising articles in Classic Cars and other mags has re raised awareness, prices are slowly climbing (& the prices for good Betas will follow eventually) so this can be no bad thing, lets not take the negatives personally but take it tongue in cheek as its mean't to be taken, or stop watching the programme altogether.
All cars tested new and old on this programme get a certain allocation of praise and a certain amount of slating, look at the new V10 R8, although proclaimed to be a fantastic car (I wouldn't have one- my last two new Audi's have been terrible cars  :'( :'(),JC reckons it has no soul and the Corvette is a better car for your cash. Will this make potential Audi Buyers stop, think, turmaround and head to the nearest Corevette dealers instead? Not on your Life!
Lets all move on and be thankful they weren't any harsher.

Generally, yep! There are exceptions  ;)

A lot of it old
Not much was new
'though exposure borrowed
For the yellow and blue

if you missed it, it's on BBC Iplayer (best of Top Gear)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qjnw0/Best_of_Top_Gear_Series_13_and_Series_14_Episode_3/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qjnw0/Best_of_Top_Gear_Series_13_and_Series_14_Episode_3/)

Dear all,
not wishing to open old wounds and all that but:

I was down at West Bay in Dorset today with Anne, "Lulu" the lancia HPE was basking in the sunshine after undergoing some mid life "nip and tuck" treatment at Western Lancia. She had also just passed her MOT on Thursday as well. All was well with the world.

So we thought it was time to celebrate with some fresh air and fish and chips etc.

Whilst doing this we were sitting away from Lulu, Anne was gazing out to sea, I was gazing at Lulu.

When along came a family, a little boy aged about 9, with his mum and dad. Son holding his dad's hand tightly.

Little boy said to dad, "look dad, there's a LANCIA. The're good you know. They said so on TOP Gear!
Out of the mouths of babes eh? Television is a powerful thing. The next generation of "TG fans" might just unwrite all the predudice??

I almost choaked  on my chips.

Chas,
(VXdeMAYO). :)  :D ;D

Nice one Chas, a breath of fresh air
I have to say the comments we hear at shows like the NEC, the R word is being heard less each year

anyone that missed the Top Gear episode:
Collection of Lancias - Top Gear - BBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_oB-Mys2aA#ws)

yet more evidence against the idiots at Fiat on why branding Lancias as Chryslers is complete and utter madness

Oh I don't know my last Chrysler was pretty good. Though admitedly it was built in Scotland and had Sunbeam written on the back.....

And of course you used to be able to buy a Saab 600 in Sweden.

What goes around comes around as they say!

I'd like the new cars to be badged Lancias over here but to be honest I'd just like them to be superbly engineered, stylis,h drivers cars - which sadly they're not at the moment

Agreed.  I have had a few Chrysler products over the years and have higher opinion of that brand than say, Ford and GM.

I don't know if you got a version of the Dodge Omni over there back then, but my old Omni Shelby GLHS was a good bit of fun.  I can't say the same for the Fieros I've owned.  Junk all of them.