Lancia Beta Forum

After about a.. 12 year? has it really been that long? break from Beta ownership after I sold my HPE VX to fund my first house, my new project is due to arrive Wednesday.

Naturally I've bought it via based on some facebook marketplace videos and a shaky video call by a nearby contact with zero car knowledge.

(https://i.ibb.co/RBfRB0R/126218758-3600189883360892-3422543756411974061-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3M2gMNg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bj6CmQ7/126160233-3600189890027558-3837061951879436753-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/82x7JfR)
(https://i.ibb.co/7NGLc8s/126166507-3600189893360891-123156069856463415-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wrKjH35)
(https://i.ibb.co/dMs0vVJ/126172328-3600189876694226-3516030731035767713-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8snDwf4)
(https://i.ibb.co/sqkYwYH/126214898-3600189863360894-659132069804907355-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RcZw0wy)
(https://i.ibb.co/VNpsnrz/126293062-3600189823360898-2836182795652985336-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z5Hz9jB)

Much more to follow once it arrives.. thank goodness the parts availability has improved since 2008.

Daft question to start with.. this has no keys. To help me out with deciding whether to get a locksmith out to match keys to it, or to replace the entire lock set.. how many keys should it have? 1 for the doors, boot and fuel cap, 1 for the ignition?

Hi

Brave man, should keep you out of trouble for a week or two.....

From memory the key code for the doors etc was originally in the glove box, though someone will correct me if I have it wrong. There are refs on the forum to locksmiths who can cut from the supplied code. I had this done for my ignition and door locks. Normally there is one for the doors etc and one for the ignition.

You can see here where I documented setting my locks to the same in case you have a variety which is not uncommon due to PO replacing failed locks with ones from other cars.

https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4191.0 (https://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4191.0)

Peter

And that's the fantastic knowledge and helpfulness I remember of this community. If it's just a case of hunting around the glove box this will be much easier than I thought!

The door key code is, or should be, on the back of the glovebox lock itself.
As Peter said, if locks have already been changed, this may not help.

It's here!

Better than I expected, but as I bought mostly unseen, I'm now spotting there's a few hard to find bits missing. The poor thing had basically been pressure washed on a wet motorway for a couple of hours to get here, so it was wet inside and out. With the combination of it being pretty dank, and me being supposed to be working I didn't get much of a look today but here's where we are

Where to start?
(https://i.ibb.co/T2W7qC7/IMG-20201125-105859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c3YZXmZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/1d8kVmC/IMG-20201125-111855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MGMmTCz)

This is good. Pushing it around is hard work at the moment with the brakes dragging but a set of refurb calipers are on the way to help address that - the first item on a large shopping list.

What's my biggest worry? At the moment it's not the windscreen surround or indeed really anything super obvious - it's the passenger door.
Gap at the front
(https://i.ibb.co/M8nSGjb/IMG-20201125-112120.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0Bq2FWk)
Gap at the back. it doesn't shut properly, more investigation is required. I can't see it being hidden structural damage.. hopefully it's just as simple as someone's made a hash of refitting the door
(https://i.ibb.co/vQjt02B/IMG-20201125-112127.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pRLmYCP)

What else did we find?

Boot lid has clearly been replaced at some point - champagne silver on the inside :)
(https://i.ibb.co/BZSx4kS/IMG-20201125-112454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8FSKyF)

Front valance has taken a whack
(https://i.ibb.co/6gMSfK0/IMG-20201125-111903.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NZvqH02)

Strut towers have previously had attention but need it again to be a small job now rather than a big job later.
(https://i.ibb.co/sqNz1CJ/IMG-20201125-112342.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yh1wdXT)

And what to conclude with.. an approach to restoration?
(https://i.ibb.co/qN6NqrJ/FB-IMG-1606326150201.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

With the structure solid enough to continue with, I think I'll go with getting it running and driving first of all then figure out where to go from there.

Expect me to pop up on here soon looking for help with a shopping list of parts. I had a short look in the glovebox, didn't spot a key code but I didn't look very hard. With the boot lid having been replaced I suspect that's unlikely to match, so I'm leaning towards a complete replacement lock set.

More to follow once I've given it a clean

Hi Chris

This also got my attention when I spotted it on Facebook, mainly because it's the closest reg no I've seen to my silver Coupe  :)
Do you know if the Chequered Flag (Chiswick) was also the supplying dealer ?
2022 will be the Beta's 50's Anniversary, nice target to aim for  ;D
 
(https://live.staticflickr.com/35/125913545_941ff4ffba_c.jpg)

I really would have a good look at the A posts before spending big on parts. They could be the cause of the poor door fit and will have suffered in some way with water ingress via that hole in the scuttle. Not really surprising that it is shipping water.....

I've got zero history to go on. there's the remains of a red dealer sticker at the base of the rear window but that's it.

I'm looking forward to giving it a scrub at the weekend and seeing what I've got. In the meantime, chucked a couple of bags of dessicant in there today to supplement the drying out process.

The doors don't droop and there's no unseemly noises tapping down the a-pillars so I'm hopeful it's simple.

Replacement front valance on the way so that's a few hours of panel beating avoided too :)

Amazingly I managed to fail to take any overall pictures today, just detailed ones.

It's really the simplest things I struggle with sometimes! today was actually mostly dominated by one simple problem - how to move a car with properly seized brakes.

I pushed the old girl out of the garage just a tad.. tried pushing it back to make sure I wouldn't need any help, and discovered that whilst I had pushed it out, I couldn't push it back.
I then discovered that my mate who I had prepared for just such an eventuality had been offered some short notice building work and was unavailable, and the wife was.. unwilling to volunteer.

On a nicer day I would have jacked it up and taken the brakes off, but it was bloody miserable outside today, so once I'd given it a scrub and a hoover I grabbed the battery from my alfa, disconnected the coil lead and drove her back in on the starter. Or at least I tried - the starter got me most of the way but couldn't hack the combination of the garage lip for the front wheels and the seized brakes. Being a gambler I hooked up the coil lead, took a deep breath and turned the key.

For a car running on 23 year old petrol she runs absolutely lovely and even in the few seconds taken to reverse her in the garage she's got a noticeably different character from the VX's I've had in the past - much more zingy.

So what did I actually do whilst it was out of the garage.

I gave it a clean, vacuum and filled in my little inspection sheet

(https://i.ibb.co/ypVycL9/Initial-condition-summary.png) (https://ibb.co/tz3sTyG)

I also found the key code where you'd said it would be, which is excellent.

Tony - this is all that was left of the dealer sticker at the base of the rear window
(https://i.ibb.co/XzqXQWr/dealersticker.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hrj7SKf)

Lets get the bad bits out of the way before I get onto the good bits. This isn't all the rust but it's the bits that I'll focus on for today.
The passenger side door is drooping after all, hence the poor alignment.

I'm not sure if this grot alone is sufficient to be responsible for that - but it's not going to help.
(https://i.ibb.co/hKwS54S/grot1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cNVj5Zj)

I also had a look at what the situation at the base of the o/s front wing where we suspected there'd be more rot - yup
(https://i.ibb.co/jySvVyH/grot2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QP4F8PX)

Noticed some flaky paint in the boot drain channel above the rear light. That turned out to be particularly yucky.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZzDG1sG/grot3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N2Btnht)

And really the largest single area - below the rear window turned out to be more extensive than I'd thought - basically that whole lower edge is frilly
(https://i.ibb.co/pZjZW8P/belowrearwindow1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4MRMsGf)
(https://i.ibb.co/2KTwdq7/belowrearwindow2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ryVgHkG)

Possibly also a small amount of grot on the front crossmember but I'll get a look at that when I take the valance off.

Now, before the doomsayers come out... Lets get onto some good.

• The front wings need nothing but normal panel prep + painting
• The rear quarters need nothing but normal panel prep + painting
• The doors I think will get by with just the smallest amount of attention to the interior bottom edge where the panels fold over
• The bonnet interior and top lip are both better than they looked
• The boot lid needs nothing but normal panel prep + painting
• The sills are good
• The glass is all good
• The floor pans are good - I poked at some flaky underseal and it peeled away to reveal the unmarked factory red paint!
• It starts, runs and drives!

(https://i.ibb.co/gD7YH2S/floorpan3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D7bdsJ9)
(https://i.ibb.co/S3T6nbC/floorpan1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CHdw7gG)
(https://i.ibb.co/n62wFzr/floorpan2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbD1SJ2)

Next stop online shopping. Hopefully most of it will be simple but i'll mention the bits I think will be trickier so if anyone knows a supplier for the following shout

• Headlamps + bezels
• Lancia key blanks
• Boot badges (beta + 1600)
• Stainless trim for the boot lid

Thankfully the expansion of Beta Boyz means a lot of the stuff that would have been a nightmare is now relatively simple, not least all those repair panels!

Hi

The rot looks typical unfortunately, time/money and effort required.

These guys will sort you keys out from the code

JOHN RICHARD SECURITY PRODUCTS (WIRRAL) LIMITED    
202A PENSBY ROAD
HESWALL
WIRRAL
CH60 7RJ

TEL 0151 342 2318 / 4074
info@locksnkeys.co.uk

There are others as well.

Peter

I may have some boot trim in my stock of coupe parts as well as the odd spare badge, though the badges may not be up to much, I will check.

On headlights what do you need exactly, bowls and carriers etc?

Peter

I've been quietly collecting parts (and will be for a while yet), but a nice milestone arrived today in the shape of a set of keys, so kudos once again to John Richards Security Products. I've been lucky - the keys cut from the factory code fit everything bar the fuel cap, which I suspect is seized rather than the lock being wrong. Better than I'd expected with the boot lid at least being non-original.

I've been eyeing up the halogen headlight replacements which have been previously discussed on here and reckon I'm going to give that a punt as well - I have a mix - siem on one side and carello on the other, but from the back they all look identical. I suspect the carello ones are the originals.

I've also managed to pick up a pair of folding recaro seats from a mk3 golf for cheap in decent condition. dimensions wise it looks like they should be a goer, so my intent there is to retrim them in a more period material. Not quite the lovely VX recaros but what I hope will be a nice upgrade.

Anyone know how Mark is getting on? not sure whether or not now is a bad time for a parts order :)

Hi Chris
Good news on getting the keys cut  :)
Mark popped round the other day for a cuppa and chat, his parts sales is still up and running.
He's working a lot of evening shifts lately, but will more than welcome your order.

Cheers
Tony
 

Balancing out the equation of paying someone else to do stuff and getting it done faster versus doing it myself at the moment.

First indicative cost back from a company today based off seeing photos of the car.. I'd asked them if this was something they'd take on - have a look at the photos, if it passes that, have a look at it in person and then provide a rough guess.

Nope, straight in based off the photos with a big wedge at what I would guess they have estimated as a 600+ hour project. Try as I might I can't see 600 hours of work in this car! ah well on to the next place!

Hi Chris

The problem you will get I would imagine is that they will add a big slug of time for the unexpected. The more you can show exactly what it is to be done, the more chance you have of getting a sensible price.

Peter

Indeed that's what the conversation I'd been hoping to have was - just this place wasn't on the same page, preferring to just throw out the risk loaded cost without even having a look / understanding the mitigation.

I see a lot of this at work, but I mainly deal with civil service areas and perhaps had lulled myself into a rose-tinted view of the private sector where everyone is competent and diligent and wants to help :)

It is very easy to rack up the hours and hence the cost. The bodywork guys I used were not expensive and charged me by the hour with an end result of around £7k in work inc a complete respray and a whole lot of bodywork fabrication. Even then there were areas they did not touch which ideally you would have liked to look at even though it looks ok as a finished result. I was happy with work and the costs which seemed reasonable given the hours they put into it, but depending on your view it was a lot more than the car was going to be worth at the time. So far costs are around £11k which is still more than the car will be worth, but for me that was never the point.

Peter

Do not forget to email me with what trim etc you are after.

Peter

Hi Chris

I emailed you re the trim, can you get back to me if you still want them?

Peter

Er...   G...... ULP.

Have fun!

Not a lot to add right now except that I'm currently having the lived experience of trying the vintage warehouse 65 lights. The short version is : lights - perfect. Retaining rings + bowls = waste of time.

Trying to find the right bezels is proving a nightmare! universal ones don't have the lugs in the right place so far. Hopefully I will win and then post a write up to save people the trouble in future.

Any use?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Chrome-Plastic-Headlamp-Ring/114594356927?hash=item1aae5b1ebf:g:rYUAAOSwGGNfK~SL (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Chrome-Plastic-Headlamp-Ring/114594356927?hash=item1aae5b1ebf:g:rYUAAOSwGGNfK~SL)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-I-E-Headlamp-Including-Bowl-CARELLO/114594356922?hash=item1aae5b1eba:g:4HoAAOSwvgVfK9rT (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-I-E-Headlamp-Including-Bowl-CARELLO/114594356922?hash=item1aae5b1eba:g:4HoAAOSwvgVfK9rT)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Carello-Headlamp-Bow/114328528391?hash=item1a9e82e607:g:KQ8AAOSwHiBevrOk (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lancia-Beta-Carello-Headlamp-Bow/114328528391?hash=item1a9e82e607:g:KQ8AAOSwHiBevrOk)

Reach out nicely to Mark Milne and be prepared to visit with your full shopping list and a decent amount of cash. You just might come back with everything you need. He can help you like few others can and I know he has multiple headlamp sets. Do not expect mail order and be patient. He is a great guy and one of the true Beta fans.

Good Luck

Eric

I'm hoping I can come up with a solution for ever so we can all avoid this trying to find increasingly elusive headlights :)

It looks like I should be able to fit universal rings like this so we can just buy generic 5 3/4" lights

(https://www.vintagewarehouse65.co.uk/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/af30dc68f3735bdd7c9f4c857a6624d2/a/9/a9d184d66cc290ef2679029d70442bd2.jpg)

the tabs on the retainer ring are in the wrong place for it to just work with the original carello backing bowls, but that said, the backing bowl tabs are broad enough that it should be possible to drill new holes to allow these to fit and use m3 nuts to hold them in place.

This isn't perfect because these universal rings don't have a rolled edge to the bezel, but it's a start. I'm going to try my luck and see if I can find a company that can fabricate new rings based off the originals that were part of the lamp assemble.

I too am a Beta returnee (via Prismas, Dedras, Y10s and Flaminias). I have hopefully bought a few hopeless cases in my time and the current Spider may be another. I got mine in a swap for something that probably needed breaking for spares but I couldn't bear to scrap it. The saving grace is that I have a cupboard of parts from years ago which will cover most of the things I need to replace. My advice would be to resist the temptation to buy all the pretty shiny bits and focus on what really needs doing to the body. Is it financially viable if you aren't going to do the welding yourself for fun. Like you, my step one was to dry it out. Step two is shifting the loose rust and getting some rust proof primer on it. If the leading edge of the bonnet isn't rusted through I'd flood it with waxoyle while it still exists.

100% - I'm sure on here it looks like I'm rearranging deckchairs on the titanic  ;D

Step 1 - stop it getting any worse - done
Step 2 - make sure it's viable - done
Step 3 - decide repair route - In progress
Step 4 - gather parts for repair - In progress
Step 5 - do the repairs
Step 6 - drive and enjoy!


Step 3 is taking longer than I'd like, hence doing step 4 and a tiny bit of step 5 in parallel. The only reason I'm even looking at step 5 stuff like the headlights is for that all important aspect of restoration - morale! even if I can sort out one tiny bit and say that's done, that is still a part that is Done!

The majority of amount of what looks like filth and rusty detritus in the photos is actually all the waxoyl in the world concealing good metal.

I found this tiny sticker in the rear window - what do you think my chances are for claiming on the guarantee? :)

(https://i.ibb.co/P9rxkNj/IMG-20201227-135608.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tbwcyk2)

They'll want to see the receipts for all your annual bodywork inspections before they pay out under the guarantee......

Point taken on the morale front. You can also rightly claim that the parts won't get any cheaper and can always be used on a later project.(Hence my already having a cupboard full of tasty parts from a project I sold on 20 years ago.)

Re the Titanic though, I think it had rather less holes in it!

Chris,
Your morale thing struck a chord.
I had realised that when I took on my HPE project, I didn't want to reach a stripped down into
little pieces stage and loose interest from the enormity of the task. I therefore had a goal,
which was the MOT.
Once that was achieved, I drove it for a month then sorned it.
Now i'm in my winter project mode which involves a lot of what it still needs to be
a better and even more reliable car.
Collecting parts is a brilliant way of keeping on top of the mental curve, even if you don't fit them yet.

As said before, there are a million ways of restoring a car, each one of us has a different approach,
all of which are fine. I think that's what make the process, and sharing, so enjoyable.

Next year, when permitted, I want to tour the country over a couple of weeks, visiting fellow
Beta owners with my car. I hope that some will let this happen!

Best of works with your project!

Nigel

Me too, I’m a Beta returnee! I had a coupe and VX HPE back in late 80s and early 90s. Bought my 1981 1600 coupe a couple of years ago as a rolling resto. I’ve since been trawling eBay collecting bits I might need one day!!
I’ve finally succumbed and bought some much needed brake discs from Bielstein.com - nearly £300 for all four with shipping. My thought was buy them while I can and worry about the cost another day.
I think mine is in need of slightly less work, it was owned by an enthusiast for many years which was a God-send, but it suffered the year before I bought it by being shut away in a very damp lock-up. Now the rot has got a hold but it’s not disastrous.
It would be great for the two cars to meet on an event one day when we’re allowed back out. I would have been at Bicester Heritage Scramble this weekend, fingers crossed it can go ahead on it’s rescheduled date in April...

I agree, many ways to restore a car, all of them valid but having once had my coupe off the road for 10 years... Never again! she will never be perfect but I don't care, I just have to drive it as much as possible ,all year, all weathers trying to avoid wet salty roads and keep on top of 'niggles' as they appear, thank god for Dinitrol!!!

I have freebie tickets for the Bicester event in April - I plan to be there in my Appia on Saturday and my Beta on Sunday, or vice versa.

More morale boosting / deckchair arrangement today

I caved and ordered a set of original headlight rings - so if I were to summarise my trying out the vintagewarehouse65 setup -

• If you can live without the underbonnet adjustment, you can buy the complete kit and backing bowls and it'll work no problem with universal chrome rings, universal headlights and backing bowls, and you'll never have a problem getting hold of them again
• If you want to keep the underbonnet adjusters, you need to keep your original backing bowls. Universal headlights will fit in these, and you can either use original chrome rings, or you can use universal chrome rings but if you do, you will need to drill new holes in the backing bowls as the universal rings fixing points don't quite match the original locations - and you'll need to use nut / bolt arrangements rather than the original threaded bolt holes

I personally wanted to keep the underbonnet adjustment, so kept the original backing bowls. The fixings were all pretty much balls of rust so I took the bowls + lights complete out of the car and did them all on the bench, which was much easier. If you're using universal rings you'll need to take that approach anyway, unless you go the whole hog and weld captive nuts into the newly drilled backing plate holes. On my original backing bowls the threaded bolt holes had rusted away so I had to fit nuts on the back - my hint for that, make sure you have the light lens vertical because you'll never get it adjusted again with it still in the car!

Anyway - result = Morale! It keeps tempting to me fit the replacement valance I have in the garage, but that's probably premature.

It makes me very happy to see the front of the car at least having all the parts attached with some of the hard to get hold of stuff solved.
(https://i.ibb.co/7SMc6FB/lights.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BfWDSRv)

In other unobtanium parts, The washer tank had a lid that didn't even come close to fitting. I couldn't find one that fitted so 3d printing to the rescue

(https://i.ibb.co/pd9jyjx/washercapcomplete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fzj4V4K)

It fits! but.. it also turns out it lacks some flexibility. I'll give it another try with different material soon

(https://i.ibb.co/fCPSDYH/washercapbroken.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K93GKjW)

Not pictured as it's not quite finished yet, is replacing the ignition switch. No more screwdriver to operate the ignition for me! I trial fitted the new one using non-shear head bolts just to make sure it's all working, I need to get back to it tomorrow and fit the shear bolts and refit the steering column cowlings. With that, the car will be in one piece as such as much as it's ever been in my ownership. I still need to replace the lock barrel in the filler cap to get access to everything, but we're getting there!

Finally got round to approaching Mark about the repair panels, seeing whether or not the windscreen scuttles are still available. Fingers crossed as it'll make life easier if they are

For the universal rings, that is what I have on the car with original bowls. They are fixed on with self tappers, they came to me like that, I just replaced the screws with stainless ones. This makes the whole job a lot simpler than trying to fix nuts and bolts.

Peter

Coraggio fratello!

That would be more sensible - I guess I didn't think of it as the originals used bolts rather than screws and the kit I ordered came with bolts

If you can extract the barrel from the filler cap you can adapt it to the new. Put the new key in the extracted barrel and file off any pins that are still protruding. This of course reduces the degree of security afforded by the lock so you have to decide whether the loss is significant. It should still deter any casual theft of petrol.

Hi

Before you do that, suggest you have a read of this thread which has a locking fuel cap illustrated and explains how to rekey them.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4191.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4191.0)

Hope it helps

Peter

Cheers. I understand the process - I wouldn't mind reducing the security of the lock through filing the pins, but the number 1 problem is that it's locked, and on the car. I could watch the lockpicking lawyer all day on youtube without understanding the tactile feel of the pins to be able to pick the lock myself, so if I'm calling in a pro to pick it may as well have them rekey it as well :)

Keen to get that lock out though as one of the first mechanical jobs is clearing out the 20 year old petrol and replacing the fuel lines. Amazingly the car still starts and runs off the old fuel but getting rid of it just makes sense.

Hi Chris

If you need any pins let me know as I have a few spare after my rekeying exploits.

Peter

Getting in the professionals sounds like a thorough approach. Looking at the repining thread I see the pins are rather more substantial than on later Fiat/Lancia locks.

On the subject of the lock picking lawyer, one of my favourite YouTube channels, particularly liked him using a coat hanger to open one of the hotel room type of safes. He is well worth a watch just to see how insecure most locks actually are. I used to think where they could pick locks easily on the films was just a bit of artistic licence, but there are folk who can actually do it and quickly.

Peter

I have just found one headlamp ring in my shed.  Shall I take a photo?

No thanks I have a complete set, all fitted to the car with the new lights.

Replacement bootlid arrived yesterday.. that's it for the bolt on panel replacements collecting

Fab!

A tiny morale update today.

I'd whipped out the battery tray a while back to give it a refurb and cut a new aperture in it to allow me to use a windscreen washer pump that is actually obtainable.

Today I finally got round to putting it back in - new earthing straps + negative battery lead (positive will follow when it's a bit more accessible), replaced the brittle windscreen washer tubing and fitted the new battery. Nice to see the first bits of shiny hardware back on the car.. I won't mention the broken battery tray bolt I still need to drill out (oops).

That meant I could finally test some of the other minor bits, so new ignition switch.. turn key, and presto! no more screwdriver required. The wipers sprung to life as did the indicators because i'd managed to knock the switches to on previously. Next up was testing the new lights. My beta history had me fully expecting none of the new ones to work straightaway.. but no! all of them work exactly as they were supposed to. A major surprise, maybe my mechanical skills have matured since 15 years ago..

I've also been talking to some bodyshops and think I've got a winner there. The chap came out, looked round the exterior and immediately poked the worst area on the car - below the rear windscreen. Always nervous watching someone checking for extra rust but he didn't find anything I didn't already know about.

So yes, all in all basically I've done a tiny amount of actual work, but it all counts!

Well done Chris It makes me want my car back from the paint shop to actually do something!

Hi Chris

Keep going, it amazing how the little bits add up and you realise how much you have both accomplished and learnt along the way.

Peter

Things are happening!

With a baby on the way it became apparent I wasn't going to manage my original plan of work at it in slow time in my garage attached to the house.

A few bonuses at work meant I had a little more money to throw at the problem, so.. off it goes to get stripped, repaired + painted!

Out of the garage for the first time since november
(https://i.ibb.co/pvCTCBT/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGnhnRh)

It really liked that garage.. you can see how it dug in and tried to stay behind
(https://i.ibb.co/WWzhm4P/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RtMj71)

And onto the recovery truck for the short trip across to the bodyshop
(https://i.ibb.co/mG0DSd3/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/80bKXGH)

I followed and dropped off the first few bits to help them along - a replacement bootlid, and a front valance, reconditioned brake calipers, new discs + pads.

Parts on order via Beta Boyz - full windscreen scuttle, stainless exhaust and braided brake hoses.

Now we'll start seeing what is really wrong, rather than what was obviously wrong :)

With the car off I thought I'd keep myself entertaining with touching up some duplicate trim pieces I had.

The front grille had loads of areas that were greying almost like mould, so sanded + painted with plastic primer than satin black.

I'd got a better badge than was on the car originally. The one on the car is nearly as bad as this -
(https://i.ibb.co/Ss8tjqP/grim-badge.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

The replacement one was a lot better
(https://i.ibb.co/QFwTMnZ/badgebefore.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhvBZb1)

I went for a 'sympathetic' resto, rather than trying to take it back to bare plastic, I got some chrome spray paint, sprayed a bit into the lid and carefully touched it up with a brush
(https://i.ibb.co/3FcLt09/grillebadgeafter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwD17LP)

End result is a 100 times better than what's on the car :)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bjn4QDW/grillecopy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sQW5NSx)

I'm also trying to redo the boot badges. That has so far been an unmitigated disaster, time to break out the paint stripper and go again..

I'm impressed!   I should try to do something similar, but I know that I'll bodge it up!

With a bay on the way you'll have to hurry up and enjoy the Coupe before you have to trade up to a HPE. I'm impressed with the chrome touch up on the grille badge.

Well, with preparing for, and now the arrival of the baby I haven't kept an eye on the car... I pass the bodyshop on the way to the hospital and noticed panels coming off... called them today.

Windscreen cracked on removal, and extra rot has been found in the inner wings and floors. Stopping by tomorrow to get some photos, fingers crossed!

I'm going to find out how much a new screen costs from pilkingtons, if any readers have a decent one, let me know!

Gulp! I knew the chassis legs would be shot, but perhaps not quite how far gone they are.. that said, other areas of the car better than I expected so swings and roundabouts...

New post in the parts wanted thread in case anyone has a scrap shell to cut repair sections from

(https://i.ibb.co/NmB5FdF/IMG-20210727-103957.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JyJVcwc)

(https://i.ibb.co/GMdtVdh/IMG-20210727-104215.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNXnCXc)
(https://i.ibb.co/hHYGWYV/IMG-20210727-104205.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J23Y73H)

Front crossmember better than expected along with the panels behind the grille
(https://i.ibb.co/rMRjyqh/IMG-20210727-104334.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gk46PGD)

Windscreen scuttle rust opened up.. repair panel is a bit of a bitsa but hey ho, better than not having it
(https://i.ibb.co/NxFyTK3/IMG-20210727-104222.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jh8rJD5)

Well.. after months of no progress I finally had a productive conversation with the bodyshop, they lost their fabrication guru and then their new hire wasn't up to scratch, so that's left the project in limbo for a while. With no clear timeline for recruitment of a new fabricator I'm now looking for a new place to take on the bodywork and mechanical recommissioning :(

As tempting as it is to try and do it myself, a 4 month old in the house will mean me making just as little progress as the professionals

Poor thing looking a bit sorry for itself!

All packaged up, picked up by Brian Cates of trimming fame to carry it on -

(https://i.ibb.co/18yJ5Fk/IMG-20211025-130640.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jg0Z2nS)
(https://i.ibb.co/CwfdGZD/IMG-20211025-130628.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VLsy4Z5)
(https://i.ibb.co/zGFVt8N/IMG-20211025-130550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bzF5GH7)
(https://i.ibb.co/qMThFjC/IMG-20211025-130539.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JRD8Ftq)

Also this morning I dropped off the interior at the trimmers, so in 2 weeks or so should have the VX interior all done in the new cloth

Rather than me posting it twice - at last, something is finished from the car!

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4393.msg32477#msg32477 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4393.msg32477#msg32477)

So.. the restoration has really gathered pace.

I feel moderately guilty being a chequebook restorer here, but not that guilty because fundamentally it's a Beta saved, and when it's next time for some bodywork tlc I'll be starting from a much more manageable place. Undoubtedly I'll have a chance to do more than enough fettling in the meantime.

So last time we saw the car it was off to wimborne for attention, with none of the rot addressed

Brian has cracked on with it. All the photos are of varying degrees of primed / finishing, so they don't quite show the metalwork fine detail
(https://i.ibb.co/T4xsXN8/rearinprimer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3p9nXPN)

After tackling the worst of the rot elsewhere we got to talking about the horrible aftermarket sunroof I wanted gone
(https://i.ibb.co/gDXRPcX/roofinprimer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDVLnKV)
(https://i.ibb.co/r78KPfP/roofsanded.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yfvmTBT)

and poof! it's gone
(https://i.ibb.co/ydFZXPv/roofpainted.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0my6c24)

So somehow we have gone from disastrous rot to it being in paint!
(https://i.ibb.co/51YgzmM/frontquarterpainted.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x2mtcWC)
(https://i.ibb.co/1b01s1P/frontscuttlepainted.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Trw6K67)

At some point we'll have to move on to the mechanicals but I do feel like the odds of getting to the 50th anniversary are looking much more hopeful

Hi Chris

A big step forward, well done. No shame in getting someone to do the bodywork. I happily admit to not being any good at it and the HPE will go to the same guy who did my Spider bodywork.

Peter

Fantastic. I wish my bodywork guy had shown that speed of progress. You now have the what standard of mechanical restoration is good enough dilemma. I kept finding things I thought were fine when they went into crates were far below the standard of the rest of the car and needed major work. Time to find your friendly plater (Gold Passivate), vapour blaster (Aluminium) and Epoxy Powder coater. I use Chingford Technical Coatings in Maidenhead.

Just remember there is a lead time so getting the bits into the process quickly matters.

I will make progress suddenly when the wiring is finally done! Another decision for you on whether the OE loom is fit to use?

Eric   

Hi Chris,
Really good to see another Beta being properly sorted.
Regardless of wether its an open cheque book or personally worked. It’s great to see a nice job.

And the 1.6 (1585) engine is my favourite. It’s not much slower than the 2.0L in standard trim and it’s just about indestructible. I tried for years to kill my 1585cc coupe with far too many revs for over 70k miles (it already had 60k on the clock) and it just laughed me off.

Looking forward to the finished article.

Ian

I concur Ian. An almost 'square' engine, smooth and quiet.
And probably very tuneable to silly figures.

This deserves an update! after the initial burst to get it painted, a few things happened

• We discovered more rust (of course we did!)
• We found we needed some hard to find parts
• My restorer had a sudden death in the family
• My funds needed to regroup

These things meant it had to get off the front burner for the restorer to make way for other bits, and now we have the challenge of getting back into it, and to be honest it's borderline if it'll be ready for the 50th :(

I popped down today to deliver the hard to find bits (brake bias valve, cambelt tensioner pulley, tie rod link) and have a look at the car, as I've not seen it in the metal since it's been painted

Typically the rain came out, which delivered mixed blessings - never view a car in the rain as they say, but it turns out to be great for seeing if the roof curvature is right after the sunroof removal
(https://i.ibb.co/xLwdkrb/IMG-20220516-131440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8sGtCQw)

That's turned out way way better than I expected

(https://i.ibb.co/pjG4m4p/IMG-20220516-131024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/60VDdD5)
(https://i.ibb.co/qpDF9Dh/IMG-20220516-131018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fHXGtXZ)

Most of the shiny bits still need to go on, and some panel gaps still need tweaking, but nice to see it, especially with the front valance damage sorted, and of course the rust sorted.

Dash is more or less back in, new brakes are on expect handbrake cables..

Immediate goals - new cambelt on, exhaust on, handbrake done, then it's on to the recommissioning side - hopefully as it was a runner before it won't be too painful, but we have still yet to figure out why it was left without any coolant in for 20 years (and what damage that's caused), plus I'm bracing myself for the 'need a new fuel tank' call.

Hi Chris

Read with interest. I suggest no coolant for 20 years buy and fit a new water pump and change the core plugs in the block. They will have rusted from the inside and will probably leak later. Also you should have a full chemical coolant system flush very high on your list for just after start up. If possible use a garden hose to push water through the engine from the rear rail before you fit it and still with the old water pump and core plugs. You want to do all you can to shift rush scale and old antifreeze crystalised gel stuff. If you do not get a new water pump on there it will probably demand attention not long after first start up.

Good luck

Eric

Agree with all that, and the flush needs to be soon, because if the heater matrix leaks I want to find out before the interior is fully back together.

Chances of doing the core plugs with the engine in?

Hat eaten! Have to confess that when I first saw your car on here I was 90% that it would end up in the scrap yard once you found all the rust, even perhaps that the lower A pillars would be beyond economic repair....

Well done you and hope it does make it to the 50th.

Hi Chris

Possible but nasty compared to doing them before fitting the engine. The GC manual tells you how if you are unsure and they are common to multiple TC blocks. The cheap plastic S2FL heater tap is the top candidate for leaking after installation. I remember thinking I had been stung by a wasp from the hot water on my foot! 

Back in the day I de-scaled the heater matrix core with Kettle de-scaler

Eric

Well, let's be honest, at the time I bought it, I'd been looking for a coupe for about 2 years and the choice was between this and some utter basket cases. Since then some lovely examples have come up for sale that make this project look like a fools errand, but that's spilt milk, under the bridge!

Hi Chris

I have to sort of disagree on the fools errand, you now know for sure the state of your car, good and bad bits. What looks good from a buyers point of view can often be mediocre when you finally dig into it unless there is documented recent work etc. The cost side of it can however be less attractive of course!

Peter

Slightly off topic, I'm off to the lake district at the end of the week and had in mind to pop over to see what ever happened to my old HPE VX - the guy who bought it isn't far away, but never used it or put it through another mot / tax, which surprised me as it was in excellent condition.

Had a nose on streetview to look at historic images, and what do you know..

July 2015 it was still there and someone was at least interested in it!
(https://i.ibb.co/SsFXW2Y/Capture.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Well.. I thought we were there. Last step short of refitting the interior, for some reason was a nice spot of deferred risk - refilling the cooling system. You already know what's coming next..

leaky core plugs.

I really want this car back on the road... I might go for the slightly nonsensical option of saying even if the engine has to come out for the core plugs, it's just the core plugs and nothing else that gets done before it goes back in. No head gasket, no clutch, no seals.

Dilemma. I'm definitely not doing the eventual fast road engine plans I had in mind - I want to drive the car as is for a while and see what's next.

Hi Chris

I feel your pain! As I said before you can try to do this engine in place exhaust off. Patience and swearing essential. I would probably try given the work to pull and refit the engine.

Good Luck

Eric

 

Hi Chris,  And since the exhaust has to come off to remove the engine/gearbox, its worth a try first.

If you do need to remove it, however, just crack on and get it done.  I remember a weekend a few years ago when I was using my Coupe as a daily driver and it is suddenly developed a horrible sound when in 5th gear.  I got back from work on Friday night, removed the bonnet, battery tray, radiator etc and started disconnecting things; on Saturday morning, after disconnecting the driveshafts the eng/g'box was out, gearbox separated, spare gearbox bolted up, did a bit of cleaning (very satisfying) then eng/g'box craned back in the car; all that remained for Sunday was to refit, reconnect and refill the fluids and I was back to work on Monday feeling a real sense of achievement.  Go on, you can do this!

Chris

I have a drift for the block core plugs that makes fitting them a lot easier. If you'd like me to post it to you let me know.

Well. where were we. Core plugs. done.. then the thermostat needed replacing - a tricky one to find. Then the top water rail turned out to be toast...

But, after all that, eventually we have a car that starts, runs and stops.

Can I have it back please.. ah.. roof has microblisters, so that goes off to get redone and more waiting ensues.

Then yesterday I get a email.. how does tomorrow sound for drop off? Yes please is the instinctive reaction.. get it back under my direct control. When it arrived today in the pouring rain and howling wind, initially on my drive I began to question the wisdom of that rushed decision as the rain attempted to turn it into a paddling pool.

(https://i.ibb.co/JxbN1KF/car.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tZNSG4P)

Next step was to erect a gazebo as a temporary cover until the windscreens were in - but this rapidly became apparent it was going to end up as a youtube fail video of a gazebo either taking off or damaging the car, so mission aborted and empty the car of everything that'll get immediately damaged by the rain

(https://i.ibb.co/6FnsPcb/rearwindow.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jD64M9G)

With that done I ended up popping out to buy a raincover as a temporary solution and looked at what I had brought inside. It's been 2 years since this car sat anywhere other than in a bodyshop / garage and everything is utterly swamped in sanding dust. Thank god the wife was away as she would have had a fit at what happened next as all the carpets came into the kitchen for a vacuum
(https://i.ibb.co/Y0pWMVM/filthycarpet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RjzSmJm)

followed by a proper clean - what came out was gross.
(https://i.ibb.co/vxLw2J6/rugdoctor.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Z4mBjn)

The main carpet has actually escaped this treatment as it's just too far gone at the drivers heel pad area. I think I'll end up using it anyway and just putting mats down in the meantime.

Anyway, damn shame I didn't have it for the restoration show as yeah.. there is still plenty of work to do - it feels slightly demoralising to have it back in pieces, but still, I have to keep reminding myself that it was a rotten car with stuck brakes, damaged suspension and no cooling system when I started.. it's come a long way.

So now I have several challenges to deal with. Most expected, some not

• Windscreens fitment
• Dry out the car
• Fix the rear wiring loom (original garage that flunked the job have literally lopped through the whole loom cable!)
• Get the wheels refurbished and new rubber put on
• Exterior trim fitment
• Put back together the jigsaw puzzle of the interior
• Underseal it
• Drive it!

I can also see some small bits of unrepaired grot, which is annoying, but at least it's very localised, for me to decide to live with it for now or not.

I can see the wife is going to be unamused as the car is on the drive, I was expecting to be able to just get the screens in, bolt in a seat and drive it to and from my lockup to work on it (its only a half mile away), but that plan has had to change as I'm not driving it on the road without any rear lights. My soldering skills are going to be getting some practice.

Hi Chris

That looks like progress to me! On the wiring loom use good quality crimped connectors with real ratchet or cantilever crimpers. Not those awful single pivot things with pre insulated terminals that fall off quickly. Solder and movement equals broken wires and should only be used if ever in a very limited way. Pole Volt & Vehicle Wiring Products are your new friends. I actually made a new loom copying the original, but this takes dedication and a lot of time. Usually the engine bay, transfer and rear looms re-made will do the job.
I have a full car sized very strong full cover Gazebo I will be selling soon that allowed me to work through winters, summers and storms. I can tell you how to ensure it stays where you want it and have the ratchet straps and weights. Let me know if you are interested. 
I think I also have a Coupe Carpet fully wash hoovered in the garage roof space maybe 2 I will get around to selling as I continue to tidy and organize. They are not immaculate, but better than many.

I am in Waddesdon which comes with a National Trust Manor House and Vintage Steam railway as day out entertainment.

Cheers

Eric
 

Hi Chris

You have come a long way. Always good to admit to yourself what is and not possible to do yourself.

Keep on going you will get there

Peter

Thanks for the encouragement both :)

I have managed to find a person who can do the screens for me, so that'll be happening after easter.

In the meantime I've been doing little jobs to make progress where I can.
A mirror is on (other retaining nut has gone missing)

Investigating the wiring more showed actually not all the loom has been chopped, just lots of things left unplugged, so that's good news.

Rear lights are now off the car and disassembled, I have new frames but the lenses were a mixed bag and I had the happy times of dremeling + drilling out rusty screws.

Taken Eric's advice on crimp connectors but still had to get my soldering iron out for a detached fly lead in the lights.

(https://i.ibb.co/gWMX060/PXL-20230402-191641337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R6pMX7X)

Looking ahead to when it's time to put the interior together.. what's the right order to start in? main carpet, centre console, divide to the boot?

I'm dreading trying to get the headlining done without a template of an old one to work off.

Sometime in the next month I hope to remove the headlining from my car. I'm not sure about refitting it yet and may have to use it as a pattern come the day as there are some raggedy bits by the sun visor mounts. Like yours mine is a S2 FL but is the 2000 with the sunroof. Should this be any help you're more than welcome to come and look/measure it when it's out.

I'm also going to be working on the rear lighting at some point in the future and will be attempting some LED lights. There is a red/white combination available and, with a BAY15 fitting and some careful work on the board I think I can persuade the two reversing lights to function as combined reverse/fog lights. I've never liked the aftermarket look of the bumper mounted ones...

Guy

Hi Chris

I can probably also help out with pattern for headlining albeit like Guy with sunroof.

Peter

Sunroof shouldn't be a problem - one less cut out for the trimmers :)

Are any of you planning on going to Mark W's get together in June? I'm just thinking about opportunities to pick up bits.

Having the normal resto headaches of small progress is hard today.. front indicator lens has cracked. Get a replacement.. wrong size! they must have sent the wrong one.. get another one.. ah no, it's the lamp unit itself that's wrong. Oh well! at least it'll poke me to get the bumper off and aligned properly

Hi Chris

I had not heard about the meet at Mark’s, but just checked his website and not yet confirmed. I am free so will be able to go.

Peter

Unfortunately the proposed date clashes with the Malvern Kit Car show I’m committed to. Hope the date moves but I’ll be visiting Mark this year at some point!
Guy

Todays task - enjoy the sunshine, but also put on a better (plus safe and legal - bonus!) wheels and tyres on the car. Reminds me I must dig through my parts for decent wheel centres - I have no idea why someone thought fluorescent yellow would be good on these ones..

(https://i.ibb.co/WgScRV4/beta-with-other-wheels.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KFC98Kp)

Little and often hopefully will see it on the road soon. Screens are going in on friday. I think my next small step will be putting the repeaters back on and then tackling the face of the car, putting everything back on properly there.

Hi Chris,

Looking good, hope the tape around the screen does not cause any problems with the paintwork.

Peter

Fingers crossed. It hadn't caused any dramas when it was taken off for the roof to be repainted after a reaction to the previous paint layer.

My next challenge - how to repair side repeaters where the locating bolts are gone? I'm thinking either just Dremel out the area where the captive bolts were, then try and remake it with new bolts and a glue gun, or perhaps glue in a plastic lug and use self tapping screws from inside the wing?

Is there a proven route for repairing these? New ones seem to be heinously expensive

Hi Chris

You could just stick them on. Obviously you need to use decent double sided tape. Eric swapped me a pair he had repaired the screws, so he may be able to suggest a solution.

You also should find a pair of later black surround ones at a cheaper price than the chrome/plastic surround. If you already have the earlier chrome/ metal ones they tend to more desirable than the the plastic surround ones.

Peter

I bonded new Stainless Bolts to the Siem units using JB Weld. I also have some new chrome surround ones somewhere. Clearing the last lock up post move starts soon so It will be less of a mystery and I will list parts for sale.

Eric

Thanks Eric, did you cut out a space where the old bolts were, then glue, or just glue on top of where the old bolts were?

Todays detailed cack handed - side repeater repair.

Having looked in my bike bits toolbox there were some perfect bolts to be about the right size and length. If memory serves these are from attaching disk brakes to the hubs.

So to fit them, step one, cut out the stubs of the old bolts with a dremel
(https://i.ibb.co/tQSPrgC/indicator-repair-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QpZjwLm)

Step 2 - put a thin sanding bit on the dremel and it makes the perfect size hole for the bolt head
(https://i.ibb.co/BtRBKS5/indicator-repair-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SPpB794)

Step 3 - reach for my long out of date adhesives box in the garage.. the JB weld plastiweld (right) was perfect.. unfortunately 99% of the hardener had long since hardened, and because I'm impatient, rather than ordering more, I reached for the next thing in the box - evo stik impact adhesive (left). This was also well past its best, but I poked a hole further down the tube to get some remaining liquid out..

(https://i.ibb.co/CHqs8ww/indicator-repair-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0GkV2nn)

Both options seem solid, but I'd definitely recommend the JB weld option over the evo stik :)

Excellent fix! I plan on doing something similar with a couple of damaged repeaters I was donated by Tim Weston, primarily because they'e the ones with the stainless steel trim. I'm sure I can build up a spare set from all the bits I've acquired. Plus the Fulvia repeaters my car came with have been promised to a Fulvia owner who has a set of Beta ones fitted! I may get them on PX if the paintwork underneath his is okay!

Glad you got the job done! I used stainless bolts from a multi-pack with the JB weld. Just check the glue is not too high to have them fit snuggly.

Eric
PS I also have cycle disc mounting bolts in a tool box hanging around! 

Hurrah! screens are in!

(https://i.ibb.co/kQqLrfH/PXL-20230428-185806900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChVjXZ1)
(https://i.ibb.co/VTSkpgh/PXL-20230428-185400383.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4qPF9Y)

Pilkington remade screen was a good fit, not 100% perfect round the top corners when trying to slot in the trim there but close enough, and to be honest I've seen original screens with the same headache.

In other news, I am an idiot. Bolt size I glued on to the indicators (which I ended up peeling off the evo stick and using just jb weld) - 4mm. Size of the bolt holes in the wings - 3mm.

I'm having a word with myself about whether or not to just break out the drill, or do the indicators again :)

Indicators every time.... leave the paint alone!

Who did the screen fitting please I have mine needing to be done once I have the headlining in for the inner screen trim to meet up with (Spyder). On the bolt size it did not click with me locking at the pictures. If anyone on here building a car has never made this sort of mistake they can step forward!

Keep going and enjoy it.

Eric   

Hi Eric

I used a local guy so no good to you, but the key here is to find someone who used to fit screens in the 80s, ie before all the modern screen methods came into production as the area which is bonded is so small compared to modern ones and then there is the stainless trim……

Peter

Have pm'd you eric.

Indicators.. I guess the chromes originally had a black surround - given the flat back of them and the curved wing of the car, can't see how they would have fitted. At any rate, I didn't have any surrounds so I made some out of silicone as a suitably squishy material to match the contours. Photos to follow shortly.

Other job.. aside from a good sweep and vacuum out of the interior, I started taping the wiring harnesses to help figure out routing and generally what does what.

Did the loom that runs down the right side of the car. Discovered I had underestimated the amount of tape required :)
(https://i.ibb.co/vPkmhqw/PXL-20230501-133544116.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DCQkYWV)

I got to looking at the loom at the back and there's just such a hodgepodge of repairs to sort out I figured I'd better come back to that fresh. Plus it's all been thatcham coded in rosso corsa by the painter  ???
(https://i.ibb.co/c35KpJS/PXL-20230501-133603983.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B3DH7L5)

Left hand loom, I couldn't make sense of why mines been routed through the centre of the car. Can't see any reason why it would be - hints? I'm presuming routing wise I'll keep each side just inside the floor pans and then behind the strut towers.

(https://i.ibb.co/k8Xj09f/PXL-20230501-133624183.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncj9fnv)
(https://i.ibb.co/rdMfv7G/PXL-20230501-133632183.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FHJqnxb)

Gave the whole thing a sweep out and a vacuum, which helpfully exposed several mystery wires as just random offcuts, so perfect simplification territory. Such an odd mix of good and bad in the repairs that have been done. Give it 6 or 7 years use and I reckon I'll have regrouped myself enough to do the remaining bits properly again

Having just stripped my loom out I can confirm that there are three runs from the dash harness backwards, one down each side of the car on top of the sills in the channels, held in place by a tar like goop, they run up by the rear side trims, between the suspension towers and outer wings to the back lights and fuel tank etc. The centre harness deals with any window switches you may have and the switches on the centre tunnel.

Guy

Hi Chris

When finally taping it all use loom tape rather than insulation tape. The loom tape does not leave a mess on the wires after time which insulating tape will.

Peter

Small but enjoyable progress continues amidst a busy work schedule and weekends.

Ahead of our jubilee street party I taped the left side wiring loom.. then looked at the hodgepodge at the back again and ordered some nice ratcheting pliers + crimp connectors.

Yesterday we had an outing to the Auto Italia day at Prescott hill climb, sadly without the beta although the family wagon with its sliding doors and isofix is easier for carting the toddler about. Couple of montecarlos, but no other betas there. Plenty of fulvias, and I had a good chance to assess if their side repeaters would do for a beta, but sadly I don't think they will as the wing curvature on the fulvia has the bases deeper at the front, whereas on the beta they are more even.

Fantastic 037, first time I've ever seen one in person
(https://i.ibb.co/Tq8VzHQ/PXL-20230513-124044779.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rf6CnZB)

Tanc Barret had a stand there.. so I collared him to establish whether their skills extend to Betas. A nice chat for sure, and maybe when I get to more detailed jobs but right now for my car to visit him I think it'd cost me an arm and a leg. Maybe once I've ticked off the small jobs I can do.
(https://i.ibb.co/CbCzvLv/20230513-132726.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPCr6Z6)

This afternoon, I finally got a few hours to spend on the car. Given the choice of tackling the ugly but working rear wiring loom, I instead went for trying to tidy up the face of the car that had been hastily thrown together and was annoying me. I thought I'd start with headlight surrounds + grille. Now it sounds ridiculous, but I hadn't actually opened the bonnet till now since getting it home, so it was somewhat of a surprise to discover that the bonnet stay was not fitted. Nevermind tackling the face of the car then, off it was to the box of bits to recover all the bits. Well, nearly all the bits..

One of these appears to have gone walkies. Anyone got one spare? also, did I imagine that someone had remade the bonnet stay bits? mine are functional and starting to look less untidy after some dremel time today, but my memory swears blind there's easier options.
(https://i.ibb.co/vXWKZ7W/hood-prop.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

After discovering the missing bit stopping play on the bonnet, it was instead tackle the squiffy bumper and replace the indicators. Frustratingly, first thing I see getting under there to tackle that is that the stays between the chassis cross member and the front valance have been chopped off, and just left there in a twisted mess. Not hugely important for sure, but just very unprofessional - the original accident damaged valance was replaced before painting. I took them off and added some steel to my shopping list to fabricate some new ones. I also noticed that the cross member is not perfect, it'll do for a little while but I can see the whole subframe coming out and the engine getting more of a go over too in the not too distant future.

Back to the bumper.. thankfully the rest of it was less of a sob story.

Car in rally mode with the bumper off
(https://i.ibb.co/pbvchL7/PXL-20230514-185726135.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rFGYdwj)

I now have a nice matching pair of indicators on the bumper, and the poor bumper alignment looks to have been the result of another parking shunt - the off side bumper bracket was rather bent. Figuring I can't make it any worse I subjected it to a vice and some brute force, with surprisingly successful results, so I'm going to refit and see how it looks on the car.

Whilst I had my can't make it any worse shoes on, and figuring I'd get the bumpers tidied and re-chromed at some point, I went after a large dent in the chrome with a cloth and a set of mole grips, and again to my amazement, managed to make it 90% better without even leaving any jaw marks on it.

I would probably have managed to get the bumper back together but I figured having the bumper off the car would make it a lot easier to fit the new numberplates, sadly my pile of numberplate fixings has gone awry, so another item for the shopping list - along with some polishing mob bits and some autosol.. may as well do all I can for the bumpers now eh!

Overall a positive afternoon despite the frustrations along the way.

Aren't the bumpers polished stainless steel?
Did the missing bonnet prop part turn up? I got some spare parts a month ago and there may have been one in there, I'll try to have a look tomorrow afternoon post dental visit!

Guy

Hi Chris/Guy

100% polished stainless for all trim on a Beta. (Thankfully!).

I bought a relatively inexpensive stainless polishing kit comprising of three wheels and three grades of ‘polish’ ie paste and a fixing for drill to polish my Spider parts which worked pretty well, though patience is required to get a perfect finish (I did not do that well on the bumper, but other parts came up much better).

If you do not have the plastic bracket spare, I most certainly do.

Peter

Plastic bracket is 100% missing after a thorough sift. Would appreciate it if you can spare it! I had enough of a broom handle for a bonnet stay in my jaguar xjs days..

Under the bonnet I have some work to do.. lots of oil escaping from various places, and a fuel filter with rather a lot of sediment in it.

Front bumper back on. Much happier with this, with the reduced dents, polishing and straightened bumper bracket
(https://i.ibb.co/CHZBKT8/PXL-20230520-094228471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Krk6x3h)

On to the back bumper - another nasty dent
(https://i.ibb.co/TBMX9Gn/PXL-20230520-094349702.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4ZRyhLD)
And the overall view
(https://i.ibb.co/qnhdjYg/PXL-20230520-094353102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BPvt326)

50/50 during polishing for a bit of a before and after - again, same 'technique' if you could call it that for reducing the dents
(https://i.ibb.co/L83pCcx/PXL-20230520-103715579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bt9sgQy)

And back on the car after
(https://i.ibb.co/yPywLFC/PXL-20230520-154510471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fFphmdW)
(https://i.ibb.co/rHMhbbH/PXL-20230520-154515366.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0rZLBBr)

Of course nothing is ever simple - with the later filler cap / rear quarter and the rust that was there when I bought the car, I knew it'd had a prang there at some point, most of it has been repaired well enough, but the right bumper bracket is slightly stoved in, so needed spacing out slightly to get the alignment right on it. The last person to go here had used an assortment of plumbing fittings to secure the bumper oddly.. fortunately one of the things I am doing where I can on the car is fitting new hardware, so they've gone in the bin. Also, one of the number plate lights is missing its base and bulb holder.. one more for the shopping list.

None of this is to a concours standard of course, but I think in total to remove, straighten, polish and refit both bumpers, including fixing the front bumper bracket and replacing the indicators it's probably taken me only about 4/5 hours, which for that amount of time taken is a mega result.

Oh, and new number plate on at the front - if I can't have pressed steel black + silver lettering, I'll at least have the raised 4d type. Missed the stretch goal of getting the back one done. Too new a lancia logo but couldn't find one with the 80s logo I used on my old car.

Car is rather sandy from the recent hot weather + rain, but washing it had to be given a miss after the mother-in-law threatened to return to her old ways of washing her car with fairly liquid and a brillo pad unless I showed her how to do it properly, so that took up some time.

Hi Chris

I can probably help with the rear bumper light holder as just brought back a couple from France last night, will PM you later today.

Car is looking really good, like your attention to detail.

Peter

Another half day of tinkering today

Starting off with what I didn't manage yesterday.. numberplate. It was at about this point I realised why the original was a larger than normal size, with the extra holes in the rear panel exposed. Oddly they look factory! Oh well, I'll decide whether or not to get another bigger plate or live with it

(https://i.ibb.co/b1fRbQC/PXL-20230521-142220533.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1ZSJz7P)

With that done it was time to tackle the dubious wiring repairs that had worried me since I noticed them.

Right hand rear loom removed, and it was apparent that all the scotlocks added in to the loom went to the mysterious cable cluster to nowhere. So, calling up my inner bomb disposal expert, I took a deep breath and started snipping and hoped it didn't end badly. Here we are with the excess pointless chopped off
(https://i.ibb.co/7SBRY5Z/PXL-20230521-114021898.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D1m8Vyv)

With that done, the task now looked a bit simpler.

Before
(https://i.ibb.co/9s8q7ZB/PXL-20230521-114025182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5BM5PKC)

After
(https://i.ibb.co/dgX90S6/PXL-20230521-121350976.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74BcJHV)

Whilst I didn't manage to take a photo, I then taped up the loom, finding one actually damaged wire which I repaired the same way as the above, using Eric's suggestion of proper ratcheting pliers and connectors.

Mercifully the left hand side loom is much simpler and only had one 'scotchlok to nowhere' that was easily remedied
(https://i.ibb.co/g3JYwKj/PXL-20230521-135839754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W6fCFJx)

Along the way with these I also had great fun (not) removing overspray from connectors + wires.

I still have several loose wires, but they are now less mysterious. Both side looms have connectors with nothing to connect to. The heated rear window and the light between the rear seats should account for a few of these, but there's still some that are just flat out no idea what for.

Next up I need to spend some proper time under the bonnet, but for that I need the bonnet to prop open! still looking for that other prop mount.

My restoration car also has those square holes in the rear panel. I assumed that they were for mounting number plates... I'll be welding them up.

I had a look through a few boxes yesterday but haven't found the bonnet prop part yet. I will have another look today, I was sure I had one - it'll be in the last place I look.... I'll let you know if it turns up.

Guy

Not in a box. In a bag on the workbench with other odd fixings…. If these are what you need drop me a PM with your address and I’ll pop them in the post later.
Guy

Nice one Guy, saves me now looking…….

Peter

In the post now to Chris - and I've just noticed the plea for a number plate light base.... Not sure if I've got a spare one of those. I'll check the garage later tonight/tomorrow....

Guy

Found one. Doubt it’ll survive disassembly let alone Royal Mail. Can post if you’re desperate!
Guy

Hi Guy

I have one with one good and one broken plastic clip, rather than the metal clips which I am including in a package to Chris. Yours looks to have two complete clips albeit rusty ones, so he may make use of it.

Peter

In today's episode of amateur tinkering...

Brackets between the front valance and the crossmember were a rusty twisted mess, so I got rid of them and broke out the cereal box card template to make new ones.

Naturally, because I don't do this very often I couldn't remember what a 'normal' thickness bit of steel for this would be.. so after marking up the cuts to make on the sheet of repair steel, I applied my vintage tin snips and discovered that 1.5mm was probably a bit thick :D

Hacksaw did the job instead, and with the aid of my sheet metal folder vice, I now have some brackets, and as they are invisible under the car I borrowed a painting technique from 1980s ford factories of just dip the whole thing in hammerite and if it ends up drippy - hey ho, it's hidden anyway.

(https://i.ibb.co/JBvYSzL/PXL-20230525-074834381.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dWPNHQ9)

Tada! two drippy brackets.

Bonnet stay mounts arrived, thankyou

I need to look at the state of the supports on the Coupe - last time I did they looked so bent and twisted I thought they we accident damaged. Maybe not so much now I've seen the remade ones....

Next time we see a picture I hope it's with the bonnet prop fitted! Glad the bits arrived Chris!

Guy

No pics today but seeking the wisdom of the forum.

After visiting mark's on Saturday, my body did it's usual affair of going "time off work? Immune system, take a break", and Sunday/Monday I felt positively awful with a decent fever. Today I'm somewhat on the mend but it's limited progress on the beta.

I'll get the question out of the way early. Bonnet prop mounts - the captive fixing for this has given up on one side and hidden itself in that box section. Given its a screw rather than a bolt I'm assuming it must be a glorified trim plug/ rawl plug. Any ideas for a suitable replacement?

And for the infinite detail on tiny jobs
Number plate lights both now have 2 tangs. Superb, the one I got at mark's had metal tangs so they must have upgraded them at some point before the ie/vx style.

Indicator bases - proper side indicator bases are now on the car rather than my home brew attempts, and they fit perfectly.

Mirrors - now up to two mirrors on the car

Carpet - better (not perfect but a significant improvement) bought from mark hoovered and heel pads scrubbed clean. Want to get the rug doctor on it this week before it goes in

Steering wheel off, had to destroy the horn push unfortunately, 2 of the screws were too cheesed to undo

Old indicator stalks off and a quick test of how viable careful Dremel and paint is to tidy the stalks up on them. Doable but go carefully.

Sound deadening arrived this afternoon.

Oh, and I replaced the broken passenger side door pull.. that was easy, now let's attach the rod to the mechanism..err where the rod??? Another part MIA during the restoration

Is the rod handed Chris? If not I'll have a spare when I strip a door down tomorrow afternoon, assuming I'm capable of anything in this heat and post dental visit.....

Could get it in the post Thursday morning?

Cheers
Guy

Sorry Guy, haven't looked. Thoroughly bendy item, I suspect it's handed as it tucks inboard from the window but I need to confirm.

Still laid up, yesterday was a write off but today I managed a small task

I'd bought some column switchgear, 2 sets in fact, and for the better of the two I decided to try tidying up the stalks from the usual rusty state.

Keeping them complete I used a Dremel with a sanding band to do most of the work, very brief follow up with a bit of coarse wire pad. The last 5mm at each end of the stalks I couldn't get at with the Dremel and didn't want to risk damaging the plastic so they weren't as tidy. Wasn't after a hundred percent job though so left it at that, wipe down, prep and rattle can. Normally I'm very impatient at painting and go too thick but this time I managed to be patient enough to only end up with one small run.

(https://i.ibb.co/XyJV7Xb/PXL-20230615-153634836.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HNgXt7V)
(https://i.ibb.co/HpNdqmj/PXL-20230615-183120413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Ng4K7q)

Very pleased with the result it has to be said, much better than I was expecting.

Stripped down the door - no rods in there at all - Sorry Chris! I was convinced the door I got from Drew had handles on it. I might have a chance to see if any of the spares I got from Kevin included the rods but that might not be until Saturday or Sunday.

Guy

Friday comes around and whilst still not well, determined to get something done today.

Bonnet stay and mount on. To resolve the missing captive nut issue I deployed these from eBay, which worked a treat

(https://i.ibb.co/HX9JpwK/Screenshot-20230616-170708.png) (https://ibb.co/9GdM3Kp)

Mount and stay on. I put the mount on upside down initially to try and get my mistakes of the day done early.
(https://i.ibb.co/YjgnvXW/PXL-20230616-104612259.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C0LCx6t)

This yields us our first proper look of the engine bay as a forum. Incomplete, random nuts and bolts lying around, bizarre routing. Just what you want!

(https://i.ibb.co/JRc9kfm/PXL-20230616-104617175.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRgS8PL)

With my newfound access I take a look at the fuel filter, which had looked quite sediment-y from below the car.
(https://i.ibb.co/7RbKgTZ/PXL-20230616-110255973.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YJpsDX)
Last time I ran the engine and tried to move the car it was struggling like it wasn't getting fuel. I think we can say that mystery is solved! 2015 dated, rusty and full of crud. Amongst the work paid for was stripping, cleaning and reassembling the carb, quite what the value of doing that and not doing a £2 fuel filter was I don't know. Simplest answer is that the carb wasn't stripped.

Mulling that over I went to the back of the car and tried out fitting some of the newly purchased dodo mat. Simply couldn't be easier to use. Lots more to do, I stopped after doing the main boot area
(https://i.ibb.co/kSnX27V/PXL-20230616-112029337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VqyTY10)

Next up was refitting the refurbed column switchgear, which gave me an opportunity to see what the replacement steering wheel and boss will look like. Nice!
(https://i.ibb.co/s34M3Hc/PXL-20230616-134528710.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kyg3ywB)

From the side a bit of a gap to the column shroud, suspect this boss is meant for a fulvia or something. The original steering wheel has a milled out area to allow it to slide on further. Still, I can live with it, still need to test what the drive is like with the reduced reach to the wheel.

(https://i.ibb.co/HdkS9vp/PXL-20230616-134536216.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qd1gxBj)

Lots more to do. Considering I'm still rough it's frustrating seeing how much I could have got done with a decent week of wellness


Last job of the day was refitting the passenger c pillar trim where it'd been repaired but not had the hole for one of the fixings redrilled. Bit of masking tape, trial fit to leave a witness mark on the tape, then deploy my newly purchased DeWalt drill, stepping up all the way from pilot 1.5mm hills to 4mm in the end. I definitely didn't try and fail to fit the trim at 3.5mm, causing me to have to dig out my trim removal tools.
(https://i.ibb.co/bzcg9YR/PXL-20230616-151033719.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PwqZHJz)

I know where there's a spare door handle pull rod! I'll get it tomorrow/Sunday and post Monday. Do you still need a number plate light or is that sorted now?

Guy

Sorted, picked up one at mark's with both the tangs to secure it in the bumper present and correct

Went to deal with the grille + headlight surrounds poor fitment today and unfortunately the fixings have gone from not great but usable to 'totally destroyed' whilst it was away. Fuming.

So I now need the unobtanium of a pair of headlight surrounds.

To make my search less impossible, what's the significance of the different depths available? do all grilles match all surrounds or not?

Mine look to be a bit over 50mm deep in total, about 27mm in the actual surround, the remained in the top brackets reaching back to the car body. Hard to get an exact measurement as the top bracket is a bit bent.

(https://i.ibb.co/wNmtQkp/PXL-20230618-140048157.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ynj2k9g)
(https://i.ibb.co/30jyLgH/surround.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gDfMBkC)

e.g. this one looks like it has shallower surrounds
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304810034921 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304810034921)

Can anyone tell me what I need?

Not what you need but maybe what you can get?

The middle, complete one, looks like a left side. The others with a broken tab look like a right and left. You may be able to make a pattern bracket for the missing part?

Yours if you need them. Just make a donation to BetaBoyz?

Cheers
Guy

I think that there's different styles between the s2 and the s2fl cars, and therefore I am limiting myself to looking at the s2fl ones. I think those ones are s2 non facelift.

The part numbers help -
82349261 is the right
82349262 is the left

Mark's website says hes a left one, so that's that sorted

The search for the right one has led me to a used one on ebay in the US, and one for sale at a shop in the netherlands.. we shall see how I go.

I have also discovered that my pristine new old stock grille badge is for a different grille.. maybe an s1 one? it's a push in fitment with tabs rather than two bolts. In the meantime, I have the one I pictured on this thread after tidying it up. I put it somewhere safe.. very safe. so safe I can't find it yet :)

Rain has stopped play so after securing the rear windows properly (ie screwing in the latches), that's it for today.

My search for where water is getting into the cabin remains fruitless. Tops of the wings look fine, but I've not given it a more concerted effort.

Also, I said the wipers weren't in .. based off me having a complete linkage and motor in the garage that came back with the car. Nope.. there's one in the car too. To be resolved...

Last bit, car is now not starting. could just be the battery getting tired, but the new fuel filter looks dry as a bone. I probably put it in the wrong way round or something daft.

Hi Chris

You are correct they are off the S1/S2 pre f/l 1600 with the silver coloured grill.

On the Coupe from what I understand, the f/l had the same surrounds but in black and the only other surrounds are for the later grill which the f/l 2 have.

So, I should have at least one pair of the black f/l and the f/l 2 in my shed if you still need any of them.

Peter

Hi Chris

Search for Mark Milne and call him. He probably has some of these in good usable condition in his Garage/workshop unit. He does not do mail order but is a great guy to meet on a day out.

Eric

After looking for a surround for Chris, the f/l ones may very well be different, though not seen a pre f/l black one so far. As Chris mentioned to me, the f/l ones have a fairly large lip around the outside but no lip aro7nd the light surround. The pre f/l silver have small lips around both the outside and the light surround.

Peter

Minor activity today.

Cleaning up the carpet I picked up from Mark's. This is after I'd already given it a going over with a regular vacuum.. not the house one of course, the wife would be most upset  ;)

Mini rug doctor machine shampoo + vac slurping out brown grossness
(https://i.ibb.co/zXv1hB3/shlurp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bs9xgC4)

Vacuumed out after shampooing..
(https://i.ibb.co/DKcd9zr/grim.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2KVJvWZ)

This left it basically clean but with lots of little bits in still, so next step was to deploy one of those lint rollers with peel off sticky bits
(https://i.ibb.co/DMVQvCT/pre-lint-roller.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5jMLS8w)

Leaving it in a more than acceptable condition to go in the car when it's ready!
(https://i.ibb.co/cDpD1tW/post-lint-roller.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9sfsN2x)

Hi Chris

On the rubber panels, you can give it a good scrub with soapy water or similar, then when dry use Autoglym rubber restorer which I found brings it up quite well. I used it on various parts on the Spider.

Peter

You'll get a very long thin parcel later this week from Evri - it'll fit through the letterbox Chris! A set of door rods from a passenger door!

Cheers
Guy

The Carpet Shampoo thing I did on 3 Beta carpets with a Numatic George that I own. The original 25 year old George decided to die after the first one but an eBay bargain later my replacement George did the other 2 easily. Owning one of these of course makes me a target for shampoo cleaning the stair carpet which I have so far ducked.

Eric

After this arrived earlier this week I finally ventured outside to fit them. I have now wandered back inside none the wiser. Hopefully I'm just tired! Rod roughly in position, can't see how to get the angle to hook it at the rear of the door, and can't seem to get the door handle to slot in either.

I suspect I'm just getting daft at the handle end but the rear end of the door has me wondering if the method is to unbolt the mechanism, get it to a better access point and try again.

Hints and tips appreciated!

Other activity - grille back on and one light surround. Discovered the grille on top of the bonnet was barely attached, most fixings snapped off and all the receptacles missing. Drilled holes in it instead and fitted nuts and bolts. Need to replace them with black coloured ones for it to be truly subtle but it's good enough for now.

Not sure where the bars that the windscreen washers are mounted to screw into at the err windscreen end, possibly the drainage channel and it's been welded up?

Half hearted attempts to find the leaks have a slight trickle coming down right behind the center of the dashboard, and mystery dampness on the passenger side. Conclusion : I need to take the dashboard out. Think I'll finish the exterior first!

Any chance of some photos please Chris?

Back in the day I had my doors apart several times and also removed and replaced those washer bars but those days were about 20 years ago now. If I see some photos it may jog my memory (what's left of it).
C

Hi Chris - glad the parcel arrived! To remove the rods, without bending them I simply undid the four bolts holding the door latch on. There was a rubber strip with 2 holes that went to this end, I'm not sure if there should be a similar arrangement at the handle? I think the whole lot should be assembled on the bench and then slotted into the door?

Guy

Very limited progress recently due to a combination of illness and work pressures.

The exterior is now virtually complete, barring these boot trim steps, Nigel I may take you up on your spares as mine are.. somewhere in the restorers lock up or loft apparently.. Among with the expensive but unused scuttle panel.

New grille badge, and replacement headlight surrounds on, wipers refitted.

(https://i.ibb.co/qs118p0/PXL-20230701-162324326.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pzXXTdW)
(https://i.ibb.co/F8GFWrB/PXL-20230701-162318029.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qmbvnSR)

The combination of a missing wiper arm cap, and the need for adapters to go from the wiper connected to the arm via a pin arrangement has me looking at options for replacement arms. I've seen adapters available but I don't quite understand what exactly I need. Research is called for.

On the door lock rod, as you said guy, undoing the 4 bolts allowed the access to hook it up there, ran out of time to hook up the handle end.

Slow and steady!

Hi Chris

I probably have wiper arms in black, will have a look.

Peter

Little jobs squeezed in during lunch breaks.. telescoping antenna was beyond saving, took a punt on one that looked right, and it was nearly perfect, base is a smidge smaller but a bit of a washer and reused the old black base and it looks right.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252541078616?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=TeHjBWWORBm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=O_WXgjjtSZS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252541078616?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=TeHjBWWORBm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=O_WXgjjtSZS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)

Wipers.. I think my old betas must have had j hook arms! I don't remember this side pin business at all. Old ones off, seems like I either need a different type of lock for the new blades, or possibly I just change the fitting on the end of the arms.. silly little things that shouldn't be difficult eh

Wiper blade adapter might be what I need, remove the old pin fitting end and fit these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suuonee-Universal-Windshield-Mounting-3392390298/dp/B07WMQ5KZ7 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Suuonee-Universal-Windshield-Mounting-3392390298/dp/B07WMQ5KZ7)

(https://i.ibb.co/FWxdsCT/PXL-20230708-141528095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n0gK3tJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/6rqf6ny/PXL-20230708-141524362.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wB2xD0d)

Things you don't want to see when removing old speakers!

Thankfully the areas behind them had already been repaired, but just shows how far the rot had reached.

Success with the door handle and rod once I realised the handle is fitted from the inside of the door, not the outside.

A scary image but at least you need not worry about keeping to the original speakers. A modern amplifier would just have them making farting noises as the cones collapse. Watch out for the wing securing bolt behind which will need to be cut down to fit new speakers.

Eric

PS on the Beta Spyder I had to do real metal work to get good rear speakers fitted and put the 4 x50w amp behind the spare wheel in the boot. 

Doh moment from the weekend.. right, whats left to attach to the exterior - ah, the washer jets.

Washer jets mounted, lets just connect up the.. wheres the pipe gone? wait, wheres the tank gone???

I despair at points.. the car has come back bizarrely with the washer pump, but not the tank it was attached to.

How much pain am I going to be in for retrofitting either the VX style tank or a bag tank?

Hi Chris

VX style scuttle tank will need some fixings unless you have them in the scuttle already. The bag option is similar, but just needs two small hooks. They are also available new for little money with integral pump, but do not hold as much fluid.

Routing the wiring should be easier for a bag tank as you could locate where the original tank went.

Obviously getting an original for you car is the simpler option.

Peter

Time and weather continues to be against me, but some more progress.

Merlin motorsport provided complete washer kit for £30 (bag, pump, tubing, wiring, jets, switch) which strikes me as a bargain even if I only needed half of it. That went in without needing to modify anything

(https://i.ibb.co/yVm63JQ/washer-system.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kmc21Hr)

Also fitted the battery isolator, and set about trying to figure out why it wouldn't run since changing the fuel filter.

By some miracle, I watched a tv show featuring the logical fallacy 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' - Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X, and had that in mind.

How can a fuel filter change short of putting it in back to front, stop fuel from getting to the engine? it can't.. so thankfully I followed a sensible diagnostic process and discovered that lack of fuel at the carb was caused by lack of fuel in the tank :) so it's running again.

Now that it's running again with the exterior together, it's take out the dashboard and find the water leak. Watch this space..

So after all these trim and presentation jobs it's finally time to tackle the water leaks. Probably been putting it off because it's depressing finding bonus rust, but here we are

Minor miracle that this instrument cluster is still working! corrosion central
(https://i.ibb.co/28N5vRp/instrument-cluster.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bHJ7sYG)

Dash out. I removed the old insulation on the firewall after this.
(https://i.ibb.co/MVWBSzQ/dash-out.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G2BHpZN)

And over in the n/s a-pillar where the worst of the rot on the car was I find this
(https://i.ibb.co/qYXWFwD/pre-poking.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7t8RNFS)

Bit of poking later and chipping off some butyl and it looks like this
(https://i.ibb.co/MVNZT2q/post-poking.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QNmpBbs)

It looks horrific, and of course it should have been fixed when the car was done, but that's split milk, under the bridge. At least it's accessible to fix, and the holes above it that led to it have been fixed.

So what does this mean for our water leak mystery?

Well, there's a small leak over in this ghastly mess in the corner, but the main culprit, whatever it is, is behind the heater box. Of course it's behind the bloody heater box, anything else would be simple!

Taking a break and will regroup on it this pm

Chris, that's certainly unwelcome.

The heater box is only held in by the 4x 6mm nuts in the scuttle, so fairly
easy to remove.
A bit more stripping will be needed before welding.
Is that a wavy vertical crack I see, or something else?

Nigel

Thanks :) it's more just the annoyance of draining coolant if that's required which I assume it is.

The suspicious looking bit is just flaking butyl.

Having embarked to the garden for some manual labour which requires less subtlety than a beta (unless there are jobs on the car best handled with a pickaxe / mattock) I had a question for the forum..

With the heater box air inlet in the scuttle, some rain must get into even when the cars where new, where is that supposed to go? wondering if that might be to blame with mine

Hi Chris

First up, the water coming in via the bonnet vents should be diverted either side of the heater inlet and the inlet has a lip around it, the water should drain out via two drain holes in the scuttle into the engine bay, these holes should have rubber ‘hoses’ on them. The scuttle is also shaped so that water should not get into the side vents.

On your newly found rot, that is where the front chassis support comes into the cabin and needs to be properly repaired. On my HPE it had similar (worse) rot in that area and when we removed the front subframe you could move the front of the car up and down relative to the cabin. I suggest you also check the other side to see if that also has an issue. Definitely not a welcome sight and you need to check in the engine bay as well where it comes through.

Peter

Chris,
There is also a drain at the base of the heater unit.
The connecting hose goes through the bottom of the firewall.

Nigel

Well. the main leak is solved, and like most things, I should have looked at it sooner.

(https://i.ibb.co/mSM5gCf/PXL-20230803-093757028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PtfG0Zq)

This bracket wasn't reattached after the car was painted. Water down windscreen = water into the hole where the attaching bolt should have gone. Drips through right onto the lip of the heater inlet, and the seal is missing. Presto, water in cabin.

As simple as reaffixing that central bracket with the appropriate stainless nut + bolt and presto. Water buggers off to the sides and drains as it should, not a drop through into the cabin itself.

I figure I'll just make a new seal on the vent as it looks pretty generic, but for now, I'm really glad to not be taking apart the heater, and not having another enormous rust hole to solve.

More tiny progress whilst waiting for availability for garage to do the further welding.

Decided I didn't want to go on a mission every time I want to buy wiper blades. Whilst I'm sure there are betas out there with standard arms, rather than the side pin affair mine had, I couldn't find them easily, so as a temporary solution I fitted a pair of the worlds most terrible looking adapters.

(https://i.ibb.co/DK9Tyj7/wiperadapterdetail.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ggShpcD)

(https://i.ibb.co/HVG8W73/PXL-20230820-090129768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L897LSH)

On which note, wiper arms are made out of serious stuff, and drill bits are even more variable in quality than I thought.. lidl cobalt drill bits.. yes but incredibly slow. bosch drill bits.. nope. Random B&Q set I got given years ago with a house purchase, ok.

After this weeks visit from the Sahara to the UK the car was looking almost barn find condition!
(https://i.ibb.co/jgM66L9/PXL-20230907-101523281.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sywmmFp)

A hasty scrub and dropped off at a trusted local garage to tackle the further rot
(https://i.ibb.co/rH0frG1/PXL-20230908-073330679.jpg) (https://ibb.co/njm8Js5)

Not pictured is a pancake air filter and crankcase breather filter fitted to a) give me room to access the carb adjustment screws during tweaking, and b) to keep filtered air available whilst I clean up the original housing.

I've blocked off some vacuum lines in the process which will undoubtedly reveal to me what purpose they serve at some point!

Popped down to see progress today. utterly failed to take pictures.

The work that's been done to that nasty rot is amazing. it went quite far, back of the wheel well beyond it too.

Little hole in the left rear suspension turret has been a gift that keeps on giving. Patch on a patch on a patch all taken out to be made good.

The real surprise however has come from a small floorpan hole at the edge behind the drivers seat. In uncovering that it ended up in a peel back pristine looking underseal to reveal that the floorpan is shot where it meets the sills, on both sides.

Fortunately they are happy to continue, the guy is a proper craftsman and the rates are very fair!

Hi Chris

These problems are pretty common, especially looking at the original rot where water would come into the cabin. Glad you have found someone to do the work who seems to know what he is doing.

Peter

So.. a long overdue update

If we recall, it went in for a nasty bunch of rust on the passenger side chassis leg, a 20p sized hole in the inner n/s/r suspension tower, and a hole in the floorpan beneath the driver seat.

Chassis leg
(https://i.ibb.co/n1xHwQN/1.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/8snHxtc/2.png) (https://ibb.co/tKw92FX)

Driver side floorpan
(https://i.ibb.co/5GxPnnm/3.png) (https://ibb.co/VJpsQQR)
(https://i.ibb.co/1LhGcZq/4.png) (https://ibb.co/CzNKLB7)
(https://i.ibb.co/85gNZ0t/5.png) (https://ibb.co/gTZmK3h)
(https://i.ibb.co/f0PMcNX/6.png) (https://ibb.co/pX92mK1)

and.. brace yourselves

the 20p sized hole
(https://i.ibb.co/GVPsqzD/7.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/k17QbkY/8.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/0yyr7Hf/9.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/QQv9D43/10.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FHZ5Ymp/11.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FnQ7HF4/12.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/r78d9SC/13.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/mGsZr7L/14.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

And with that, the car was perfect and lived happily ever after.. I wish.

More rust has been exposed
(https://i.ibb.co/mBckchT/td1.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/PNJ9S6p/td2.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/4FBpnjx/td3.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

So on with that, question really is will we have to drop the subframe out to get at it - if so, stand by for scope creep with a new gasket set for the engine, a new clutch and who knows what else!

That's ugly. Cut it out and put new steel in, it's the only way!

Hi Chris

Sadly not uncommon problems, just glad you are able to see a way forward. It will be worth it in the end, just very painful getting there. Given how far you have come, hope you can see it to the end.

Peter

Hi Chris

Well done for getting it done. You will know you have a great car that is safe and solid to enjoy. BTW I just wrote an article for the Monte Consortium on Scope Creep or whilst I am here as my Montecarlo Clutch change job spins off into multiple other must fix areas!

Cheers

Eric 

Bottom of the A pillar. I feel your pain, it's a complex area to repair but very strong indeed once done.