Lancia Beta Forum

The 1300's MOT (more later.....!) necessitated a swap round of cars and taking the ie to Pudsey. Entering a fast bend I changed down to third.The gear was selected but the stick immediately went limp in my hand and no further gears could be found. After stopping for a think I was able to proceed to my destination in third gear, a great tribute to the torque and sheer grunt of the 2000ie engine.

It is possible to select gears at the gearbox end, and the linkage there makes a vague movement when the stick is moved, so some connection remains. Just seeing if anyone else has had a similar experience, and if so which part of the linkage had failed, or any thoughts?

I'll crawl under the car next weekend and see what I can see.

The hopeless weak cross link. Go through and re bush the whole linkage and use the HD Ideal Link Mark supplies in place of the weak cross link.

Hi Neil

You should be able to see it from above, albeit you will need a torch.

Agree with Eric, the original if you still have it will be well past it's sell by date.

Peter

This part?

https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p180/Gear_linkage_Ideal_Rod.html

I'm putting together a bit of a shopping list for Mark, so I can easily add this on.

Hi Neil

Yes that part plus a full set of new bushes and the replacement gearlinkballs if he still has them. Fixing the gear linkage will transform the drive of the car.

Eric

Hi Neil

If Mark does not have them, you can buy the kit here

http://www.fiatlancia.us (http://www.fiatlancia.us)

Peter

This will be why the gears are not selecting! Not the cross link. Total failure of a bush.

Any recommendations as to how to get the ball joint into the Betaboyz bush without breaking it? A much tighter fit than I expected. At £26 a pop I don't want to risk cracking it by using a hammer...

Hi Neil
I’ve not fitted these yet but the nylon should soften in boiling water and, to ease the press, try washing up liquid as lube.  I’m keen to read other advice if it’s out there; otherwise, get the kettle on!
Chris

Further to my last, been reading back a few posts and found Eric’s post:

“Put some waterproof cycle grease inside the nylon cups and use G clamps or water pump pliers to squeeze them nylon cups onto the pivots. This will transform the gear shift.”  So I guess it’s G clamps and confidence! 

Hope this helps.

Chris

Hi Neil

A long time since I installed these, but do you have to install the ball first or install the bush into the bar first?

There was also a comment in my instructions not to use grease as it causes issues with the bush long term. I guess the issue then is how to keep water out from causing rusting of the ball which was present on all of the balls I recovered some to an alarming degree.

Peter

Yes, Mark's instructions say no lube and G clamp to get the bush into the link after installing the ball joint. The issue with a G clamp for installing the ball joint would be keeping it straight, as it will need a hell of a lot of pressure.

Not sure about water as Peter says.

Hi Neil

I have done this successfully. I would press the bush into the link first using boiling water thick rubber gloves a g clamp and large sockets. I use cycle grease in the cup because it is water proof, will not damage the nylon and gives a longer service life. You next press the pivot into the bush using the same hot water large sockets G clamp/ water pump pliers approach. When fitted add a circlip to the groove in the bush made for it and job done.

PS any rough pivots (filter does not let me call them B**s) should be made smooth and shinny with metal polish if you have not got new ones.

Enjoy the result and try not to swear. It does work.

Eric 

Thanks Eric, where do the sockets fit into the procedure?

Hi Neil

Around the outside of the bush pressing on the metal ring of the linkage so the pivot can press into the nylon which expands.

Cheers

Eric

While I was in France I was reading this thread and remembered that I had two bushes and ball joints sitting in the garage, so I decided to give it a go. Instead of using boiling water I used a hot air gun and instead of G-clamps I used my Record vice (other makes are available...)

It all worked remarkably easily. I found a large nut (spanner size about 24mm from memory) and placed that between the pointy part of the bush and one jaw of the vice. I used two nuts on the threaded portion of the ball joint so that one nut was fully home against the end of the thread nearest the ball and the other nut was slightly proud of the other end of the thread. This meant that both surfaces being tightened were on flats.

I then popped a small amount of Silicone grease into the bush (silicone grease has no effect on nylon other than to grease it) and loosely clamped all the pieces between the jaws of the vice. The order was

1. Big nut
2. Bush (pointy end towards nut)
3. Ball
4. Two nuts on threaded portion of ball joint

I then gradually warmed the whole plot with the hot air gun until everything was nicely hot but not dangerously so. I then tightened up  the vice and the ball popped into the bush as easy as you like. Not much pressure was needed. Once everything had cooled down the fit was perfect; nice free movement of the ball within the bush and no slack.

I can thoroughly recommend this method.

Thanks for all the tips. All done now, and wow, yes, the Betaboyz kit totally transforms the gear change as Eric says.

Just had my linkage renewed and had difficulty with 5th gear,  adjusted linkage as previously,  now get all gears except reverse,  What am I doing wrong ?

Reverse is still tricky on mine. I's suggest adjusting the link on the end of the front linkage (front of gearbox). It probably needs shortening slightly.

How sensitive is the adjustment screw,  I think I may be "overdoing it" when adjusting.

How sensitive is the adjusting screw  ?   I think I may be "overdoing it" when adjusting.

It is sensitive, less than one turn transformed 1st & 2nd on my car from unselectable to easy.....

Thank you for that info.

Linkage sorted,  no idea the adjustment screw was so sensitive,  ended up using 1/4 turns to get it right.  Many thanks for all the advice.

That's worth knowing (sensitivity of adjuster). Tiny steps seem to be the order of the day.

Lightning strikes twice!

After servicing the 1300 Coupe yesterday it was used for a nice drive up the Holme Valley to a lovely Italian restaurant near Holmfirth. Last set of traffic lights before home, change down from 3rd and bingo, the gear stick comes loose in my hand. Luckily even the 1300 could limp home in 3rd. At least I know how to fix it now. Perhaps the mid 60K miles and/or 38 to 40 years is as much as the linkage is good for??

That's very interesting - my 2000  Spider has done fractionally under 60k miles and is 39 years old. You may have spotted a pattern...

Indeed. Mine is 42 now- I have had the kit on the shelf for a while, looks like I’ll be fitting it pretty pronto!

Mark

It seems to be the bushes that collapse, rather than the cross link that breaks. Though while you are working on it, it is definitely worth fitting the upgraded link, as that transforms the change.

One of the joints on the 1300's cross link was very worn, so glad I ordered that as well. So both my cars now have the upgraded link. It makes the gear change feel surprisingly different, far more positive, but somehow notchy. I'm sure I'll soon warm to it, just odd after 14 years of Beta driving....

I suspect you're adjusting to the lack of vagueness that there is in the standard setup. The 'slop' in the standard bushes and crosslink has been removed and that's probably what makes it feel notchy.

I know this is an old thread but there is some relevant information.
I have had all my linkages replaced, gearbox oil replaced, bush and seals on front linkage replace and think adjustment is needed as I too have problems getting into 5th gear.

I was assuming it'll be the length of the "Gear linkage Ideal Rod" as it's adjustable, but this post suggests it's the one at the front.
I currently have battery, radiator, starter, carbs out of engine bay for refurb so an ideal time to adjust the linkage as full access.

Is it as simple as trying to select a gear, and then adjust front linkage 1/4 turn, and repeat? Or should I be double checking the Ideal Rod first?

Hi John,
5th gear [and reverse] is when the input shaft is pushed down into the gearbox,
so yes, a 1/4 turn clockwise on the top nut [not forgetting to slacken off the bottom nut] would be
my suggestion. If that doesn't show improvement then try lengthening the ideal rod a 1/4 turn.

Is reverse a bit tricky as well? I think it's a balancing act between the two adjustments.
Regards
Nigel

Useful info here for me, as my gearchange is pretty terrible and reverse is only found after fishing about with the lever for a minute or so!
1980 Spyder, probably with an original gearshift mech / bushes etc.  I have bought replacement bushes from Mark but before I tackle the job, had some questions I was hoping someone could answer?

Firstly, as I have a car lift - is it easier to access the mechanism from below, or from above via the engine bay?
Secondly, is upgrading the cross link essential, or can I just clean and refit the original one?
Thirdly, is there a step-by-step guide to doing this job anywhere on the forum?  (Just to save me spending a night searching!)

Thanks in advance folks.
Chris

Hi Chris,
The OEM cross link had nylon end cups which can wear, but
not as much,it seems, as the 3 large bushes. I had the fortune to
have metal parts saved from a work job which fitted perfectly.
I recommend changing what you can whilst everything is out.

The front arm is easy to get at from the top,and easily removed.
The rear arm goes through into the car, not so accessible.
I didn't have to try fitting any in-situ, but it can be done.

Nigel

Having a lift will make the job a lot easier as only the links to the gear box are accessible from above. If you have a look at either Haynes or a parts book it is all fairly easily explained as to how it comes apart/ goes together. With the car on a lift you will have much easier access to the parts in the center section, including the cross link.

The cross link on my 1300 was bent as well as worn, as the material used is almost half as thick as on the part sold by Mark, so definitely worth changing.

Hi Chris, the Haynes manual does cover adjustment, but there is also a diagram and instructions within this page
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2185.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2185.0)

Thanks for the info Nigel, Neil & John.  OK, so it looks like a replacement cross arm is sensible too, seeing as I intend to keep the Spyder forever and ever, amen.
In my experience, there is normally no substitute for getting under a car and figuring it out for yourself!  :)

So, just to clarify - the "Cross link" is referred to on Mark's shop as the "Gear Linkage Ideal Rod" and in the manual as the "Gear Control Front Linkage Stay Rod" ???
Am I looking at the correct bit of the mechanism, or am I hopelessly confused?   :D

unclejam,

Number 9 is the so-called Ideal Rod. It is not a 'stay-rod'.  That is the vertical
rod numbered 4 in the Haynes pic.

I hope this clarifies, cheers.

That Ideal Rod is a truly weak and flimsy item and many of the replacement Gear Linkage kits provide a far stronger hard wearing and adjustable replacement. Beta Boyz provided me with a good example and the replacement pivotballs that go into the nice new bushes. Do this job thoroughly and you can end up with a smooth precise gear shift with a long throw by modern standards. Also pay attention to slop for the pivot on the subframe which can be carefully adjusted away after strip clean grease re fit.

Fixing the gear linkage makes a huge difference to Beta driving and really is time well spent.

Eric
PS I have the mythical Beta Boyz short throw shift conversion that Mark W will one day re-produce. 

Thanks for your input gents - appreciate the help.  I have bought the upgraded Ideal rod from Mark too, so as soon as I have finished the current job (Full brake overhaul) that will be next!