Lancia Beta Forum

I seem to remember years ago that it was possible to take this apart and fit a spurious motor from maplins (so long ago it might have been tandy!!!) anyone any ideas on how to and what can be used?

Yup ... your absolutely right.
Its easy, well within anybodies capability here.
They contain a generic "toy" electric motor, made by Johnson in this case - just pop into Maplin/Hobbystores (Ripmax) or i suppose you can goggle electric motor once you have got it out.
The carbon brushes burn out and that's the end of the motor fitted.

Don't be tempted to use a heavy duty 450 - 500 size model car motor to replace the puny one used as the extra amps they draw burn out the oil warning switch - yes they actually "earth" through the switch when the engine is turned off...... how do i know?.... don't ask.

Hardest part is separating the rear casing, you can use a razor saw or junior hack saw to cut around the bonding but don't cut right through and pop it open with a screw driver.
Remove the motor leaving the impeller in the front portion and refit the new motor with the rubber seal on the front, pressing the impeller until it is home on the new motor with a screw driver or something.

Just remember to solder the wires the right way and you can finish bonding the back on with two part epoxy - i like to use silicone sealant and then clamp it up in a vice until it cures as i can pop it back apart later on if the motor plays up again without too much difficulty.

Every VX i have seen has had a duff scavenge pump by the way.

Take it you have had the summer time "hot starting" blues?

I should be so lucky....VX still in pieces but I do know that this pump doesn't work so it's another little job on the road to recovery!

Makes a nice change from bodywork.

'just' the off side sill and a few bits in the floor to do.....then front valance to take off and check the front crossmember with fingers crossed and wood touched!! 

well this is not as simple as it seems maplins don't seem to do a motor the right size for the casing  I've looked around the 'net and did find one motor that will fit but nowhere to buy it from. I think I'll have to try our local shop that does radio control stuff. I had a look on the 'hobbystores' website but it doesn't give product dimensions as far as I can see though this one seems the nearest http://www.hobbystores.co.uk/2005/FS_Main.asp?SelectedTab=065 (http://www.hobbystores.co.uk/2005/FS_Main.asp?SelectedTab=065) ??? If I find something I'll post the source on here

This is just typical of what happens when you take your eye off the ball for a year or two.
The two places you could get the motor required now no longer stock such an item.

The motors on the link you have posted are "Brushless" requiring an ESC (electronic speed controller)  -  wow you've given me an idea for an everlasting scavenge pump!
 
Its better to source them local and actually get to see them in the flesh so to speak as shaft lengths can be differenf.

As i said the motor is nothing special and it sure ain't 12 volts either - more like 6 volts, now you know why they expire so readily.

I bought some a few years ago from the Enfield Pageant (auto jumble) from a firm called Greenweld;
http://www.greenweld.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Motors_53.html (http://www.greenweld.co.uk/acatalog/Shop_Motors_53.html)

I cant remember the dimensions off hand but i think its  Ref: CDT0008 but don't take my word for it double check with them first.

Proops Brothers were another supplier of such things (don't bother looking up their web page as they don't list any) but if you were to catch them at an event you would find the motor you require on their stand.

Found something suitable if you have no luck with your local hobby shop.
Its a Mabuchi equivalent and it matches the dimensions of my Johnson removed from a spare scavenge pump;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/28mm-Mabuchi-RC-Model-Miniature-Micro-DC-Motor-4-Pack_W0QQitemZ320403061135QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?hash=item4a9982b98f&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

Its a "380" size motor (common as cr*p ... until you need one) - just check the shaft length and diameter with the supplier first.

yep those dimensions look right but I suspect that is even inferior to the original which i thought was 4 pole and they are seconds whatever that means presumably a little under performing??? cheap though could be worth a try. As regards 6volt/12volt I found that most motors of this type seem to be quoted with a wide voltage range so it's not a big issue I think the main reason they fail is getting clogged up with fumes that get past the spindle seal
the greenweld one seems to have too thin a shaft I measured the shaft on the original motor and it appears to be 2.3mm

that link doesn't seem to point where I expected it to! it goes to the main menu not the sub menu I was looking at  where the brushed motors are

Your absolutely right about a wide voltage range being quoted.
I managed to find a batch of five pole Johnson Motors a few years ago, in hind sight i should have bought more and that is what i am using at the moment.

Got to watch out for the shaft size!

I agree the Mabuchi is not exactly the same but i think its close enough, he has a slightly better one but its too long and still only three pole.
They probably don't have the right resistance or something.

Yes also noticed the brushed motors on the link (left hand column) smallest is a 400 series motor.

it's not a 380 it's a 360 local model shop had 360 but shaft too short found this on ebay looks the right thing to me http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MMB-360-MOTOR-5-POLE_W0QQitemZ270442532575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item3ef7a18edf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_615wt_1161 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MMB-360-MOTOR-5-POLE_W0QQitemZ270442532575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item3ef7a18edf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_615wt_1161)

Yes that looks good, absolutely spot on with the dimensions - can't comment on the weight though  :D ...... just kidding
The specs i looked at had the 360 as too small a shaft length;
http://www.mfacomodrills.com/motors/motors.html (http://www.mfacomodrills.com/motors/motors.html)

Now you have found a supply best get a couple.

I've ordered one if it's good I'll get a few more,I can't believe how complicated all the variations on these motors are!

received the motor today fits the casing a treat shaft length perfect so it looks like jobs a good 'un!!