Lancia Beta Forum

I was hoping to source a pair of front strut mount bearings for a 1979 Series 2 Beta Coupe. I have seen it referred to as a front thrust plate elsewhere in this old thread and in the Haynes workshop manual:

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2090.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2090.0)

I gather that it is a needle roller bearing, identified as part #17 in the workshop manual exploded diagram which I found in another thread here (reply#5):

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1782.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1782.0)

I have been advised in Australia that there were two different sized front strut mount bearings used in Lancia Betas.

So I have some questions requiring assistance:

1) Can anyone confirm that there were indeed two different sized front strut bearings in use on Lancia Betas?

2) Can anyone advise me of the correct sized strut bearing for a 1979 S2 Lancia Beta Coupe RHD sold new into Australia?

3) Is there an accessible factory part number for this bearing? If yes can anyone provide it or point me in the right direction to locate the right part number?

4) Assuming answers can be found for 1 to 3, can anyone direct me to where I might be able to procure a pair of these elusive strut mount bearings?

I had thought that the UK custom manufactured Compbrake aftermarket "Lancia Beta front strut mount" with bearing might have been a replacement option if needed but apparently they do not fit and do not last in any case based on advice in previous threads on the subject.

Any information or advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

Hi

Hmm...  This is one of those which I struggled with to find a source. I ended up buying one from a guy in the US who just happened to have one, when it came it was the correct needle roller bearing, but incorrect seal and I was lucky enough to have a spare seal in a box of bits and my other bearing was ok to reuse, you also may need the plate it rolls against as that has also been reported that it can deform. Eric W's suggestion to use waterproof grease is also a good suggestion.

I think these were used on the early Delta, but I have no proof or refs, there was at least two different styles of bearing (I have one of each) but both fit the same strut. I thought the struts were the same, but later IE/VX may be different in this respect.

Sorry that I cannot help with a source, hopefully someone can come along with words of wisdom!

Peter

I've encountered two different types on Beta front struts. They are similar but not interchangeable. The good news is I think the different top mount types are overall identical - even if the components aren't

Mark W used to do refurbished top mounts - it might be worth dropping him a line.

I'm not sure which version suits the later models or if it was available separately but I'll have a look in the parts book when I get home tomorrow.

They are difficult to find, you really need to get the struts/mount apart and check the bearings they might just need a good clean up  and lubrication, if you are lucky. Not sure that Delta are the same they look similar but might not be the same size.

To me these look suspiciously like needle roller thrust bearings (rather than the more common radial bearings). I found this PDF on the web that goes into way more detail than you will probably need, but may help you to identify a non-OE part that will do the job satisfactorily.

http://www.bearing.co.il/E1425.pdf (http://www.bearing.co.il/E1425.pdf)

And Nadella bearings of this type (Italian, I believe) are readily available in the UK. Not so sure about oil seals, although they should be as well.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=3_29_33 (https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=3_29_33)

Thank you for your replies. Much appreciated. Any parts number info would be appreciated Stuart. Who is Mark W by the way?

It seems that the early Delta strut bearing compatibility with Betas is a bit of an unknown quantity and would need to be checked first dimension wise with the ones on the car, assuming that Delta thrust bearings are more readily available than Beta ones.

Those two links could be very useful mangocrazy to match an equivalent aftermarket bearing. I am amazed that there is such an extensive range dimensions and specifications wise of needle roller thrust bearings available. I know my father did contact a few local bearing suppliers in Australia a while a go and was told he needed a part number or accurate dimensions or a sample bearing to match something. Of course none of that is possible until the struts are stripped down and old bearings inspected which he did not want to do unless he had the replacement bearings on hand. A bit of a vicious circle in that regard.

I guess we will just have to do the strip down and inspection and be prepared for the car to be laid up at a workshop for a while if new bearings need to be matched and sourced. It is surprising that some aftermarket equivalent has not been identified on the forum or elsewhere previously given how hard it is to locate good or new examples of the original bearings. If we do remove the strut bearings in the coupe I shall definitely post precise dimensions and details of any equivalent replacement bearing to help out other Beta owners.

I know my father had to replace the strut bearings in his `84 S3 HPE many years ago. It would make a groaning sound on one side when he reversed out of his garage over the 6 to 8cm drop down from the garage floor to the driveway level. He never heard it on the open road with all of the engine and wind noise and of course the power steering masked any heavy steering symptoms. Anyway after insisting that his mechanic strip down the suspect strut, (Tony was never too keen on doing the heavier duty jobs(!), although he was a great Fiat factory trained mechanic who was brought out to Adelaide from Italy by the local dealer), they discovered that it was completely disintegrated - just a mashed up mess. They managed to source second hand ones on that occasion from a local Fiat wrecker (TAIF - long since gone out of business in Adelaide) as they could not get a new one at the time.

I am not sure just how bad the strut bearings really are in the Coupe, there are no groaning sounds evident but the steering is heavy at low speeds. Traversing a suburban roundabout is a bit of an effort. We did fit new tyres to the front which helped a bit and keep the front tyre pressures high (36psi cold) but it still requires a fair degree of effort to steer it in parking situations. On the open road it is fine until you get to very tight low speed corners. It is a long time since I have owned my 81 Beta so I don`t have a good idea as to what is normal steering load for a Beta without power assistance and with strut bearings in good condition.

Anyway, thanks once again for your inputs and let me know if anyone else has any bright suggestions re sources of supply for strut mount bearings or aftermarket alternatives.

Cheers.

Heavy steering can also be down to failure of the bearing where the steering column enters the rack.

Mark W = Betaboyz Parts http://353652584127257704.weebly.com/ (http://353652584127257704.weebly.com/)

Hi

Here is the parts page with the part nos and exploded diagram.

I do have an old one which is currently at my parents in store, so if you are struggling to find the dimensions, I can hunt it out the next time I am over there.

The diagram shows the bearing as a thrust bearing and as a single piece item, but in reality it is a three part item, the main 'wafer' with the needle rollers and a 'plate' it rests on which has a seal all around the edge. There is also a 'plate' which fits against the other side of the bearing. The two 'plates' locate in the holes in items 16 and 25.

Peter

Many thanks Peter for the clarification about the three part thrust bearing assembly. Looking at your supplied Parts diagram and numbers page, the official Lancia part number for a S2 Beta front strut thrust bearing assembly is #82303013.

It would be great if you could also accurately measure and post the dimensions of the thrust bearing assembly that you have in storage when you get the chance. We would need the inner diameter, outer diameter and width (ie height or depth) in mm to match an aftermarket bearing equivalent. If the thrust bearings in the Coupe are badly damaged, it may not be possible to get accurate measurements from them.

Thanks also to Neil for pointing out another potential cause of heavy steering via wear in the bearing at the base of the steering column.

Cheers,
Andrew

Looking at some of the other topics in the "Technical stuff - Steering" section, it would seem that a seized steering rack damper could also be a possible cause of heavy steering.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2340.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2340.0)

I gather from droptop`s experience that the steering damper can be dispensed with entirely if it is seized and a replacement too difficult or expensive to source.

I've run mine both with and without with no noticeable difference. Certainly worth taking off to see if its the culprit.

http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/beta/suspension/shock-absorber/roller-bearing-strut-front-top (http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/beta/suspension/shock-absorber/roller-bearing-strut-front-top)

no cheap

Thanks for the link Fred. You have to select English on the Bielstein website first (default is German) for that hyperlink to work (otherwise it takes you to the website German language home page).

That looks promising. The detailed description in the listing is as follows:

Roller bearing strut front top
Lancia Beta all except Montecarlo

corresponds OE-number: 82301195
(OE-numbers are only for comparison purposes)

So I assume that it is an aftermarket bearing. The OE number quoted in the Bielstein website listing is NOT the same as the part number 82303013 in the parts diagram and accompanying strut parts list kindly supplied by Peter as an attachment in reply #7 above. Is this significant? Does it refer to an earlier Beta series bearing part number perhaps? Also the inner bore of the Bielstein bearing listing appears to have a raised lip which is not evident in the bearing in the Lancia Beta workshop manual strut exploded diagram. Is that significant or is the workshop manual drawing not an accurate likeness of the actual bearing? Presumably the raised lip might help to locate the bearing in the strut top mount?

Can anyone who has replaced their strut bearings clarify whether this Bielstein one is likely to be the correct one fitting wise for a 1979 S2 Beta Coupe? Has anyone sourced the Bielstein ones and can confirm they fit? Any thoughts on the apparent difference in quoted OE part numbers? I shall send an email to Bielstein seeking some clarification of these questions but thought I would post here first.
 

Having read the OP’s comment on the Compbreak bearing, I did a search for threads on the subject - particulary any mention of the bearings not fitting or lasting very well. Unfortunately, I cannot find them.

Please could someone either point me in the right direction - or share any experiences of these bearings? I was considering buying a pair....but in light of Gromit’s comments, I am now hesitating!

Edit!

Sorry - too hasty in posting ::)   Found the various comments....I shall pass on the Compbrake :o

Good morning!

 Bearings 8238210 1 are in my survival kit, if someone is in need I can send you a couple.
 NOS still in original package!

 Cheers/Swedgamma

Hi Gromit

Yes, the bearing should have a raised portion to locate the bearing plate in the strut top. The one I think I remember has a solid portion on one side and a few locating lugs on the other plate.

Peter

Hello again!

.......which may be the one you dont want!!!! I got two kinds of thrust washers,the one with the number 82382210 1, the washer ( with a flange inside) size outside is 63 mm,
the bearing itself is 52,7 outside, 35,3 inside, while the other one ,which has no number and comes with a rubber seal, the flat washer is 58,5 outside, the bearing is 60 mm outside and 37,0 mm inside. All measurements give or take a couple of tenths and in mm.

Sorry for the confusion!

BR /swedgamma

Hi Swedgamma,

Would it be possible for you to take some photos of the two types of thrust washer you have and post them up? That would be very, very helpful. Trying to visualise from a description is never as good as seeing an image. Unfortunately Photobucket have made posting pictures more difficult than before, so I apologise in advance for asking.

Cheers!

Graham

Good Evening!

Hmm, have to try tomorrow, if I understand this right the picture has to be taken down to 1500 kB!


Greetings Urban (swedgamma)

Thanks for posting Urban (aka Swedgamma). That is very good of you to offer to supply a couple of bearings ex your "survival kit" (a very apt description!), assuming they are the correct fitting ones. 8)

I thnk Mangocrazy`s suggestion of posting a couple of photos of the two different sized bearings is a great one. I know I was going a little crazy trying to visualise each one from your description.  Could you also post the bearing width (ie depth or thickness) in case that is also needed for matching purposes?

The variation in part numbers certainly also confuses the situation. I contacted UK based Simply Bearings with the original Lancia thrust bearing Series 2 OE part number 82303013 (see reply #8). They could not use it to cross reference an aftermarket alternative. We would need full bearing dimension specs to try to do that. Those bearing photos could also be very helpful in that regard.

I have also contacted Bielstein in Germany seeking clarification of the differing part numbers, full dimension specs and compatibility of the thrust bearing they list. They have not yet responded but will post again if and when they do reply.

There is a link to an expired Italian ebay listing on this thread http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2648.0, (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2648.0,) which identifies the original Lancia thrust bearing part number as #82301195, the same number referred to in the Bielstein listing:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/82301195-Cuscinetto-puntonesospensione-lancia-BETA-Berlina-Coupe-Spider-Hpe-/221341593836?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item3388fcb0ec&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.it/itm/82301195-Cuscinetto-puntonesospensione-lancia-BETA-Berlina-Coupe-Spider-Hpe-/221341593836?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item3388fcb0ec&_uhb=1)

Even if I can score some correct fitting bearings off Urban (Swedgamma), or the ones from Bielstein, I would still like to identify a correctly sized, decent quality aftermarket bearing alternative to help out other Beta owners in the future.

Hello again!

So far I´ve verified that the previous "no number" bearing is the 82303013.I have taken a strut from a 1978 Beta Coupe 2000 and disassembled it and this car was equipped
with this  bearing.Even if you look in an earlier parts catalog this seems to be the same (1976). Whether this is applicable on an Austalian 1979 version I cant tell.I have never had any problems with these bearings on my cars.
The other one(823822101) seems to be used  on Fiat Ritmo/Lancia Delta acc to some info I`ve found here. May be they are used on some newer Betas,no Betas after 1979 were sold new here in Sweden.
  So,if you need a couple of these I can send them to you. Note:In the parts book ,item no 17 looks like one part,in reality its three parts,one bearing, one washer and one rubber sealing ring.

Greetings Urban(swedgamma)   PS Yes I quite easily took a photo of these parts, but upload them...........yes,I`m getting older.....!

Ok thanks Urban, I`ll PM you re sending a couple of the 82303013 bearings.

I fitted the ones from Bielstein to my series 2 spider without a problem. 

Hi

What p/n did you use?

Peter

The bearing part number referred to in the Bielstein listing is 82301195 Peter. Is that what you were seeking confirmation of in your question to John930 in NZ?

http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/beta/suspension/roller-bearing-strut-front-top (http://www.bielstein.com/lancia/beta/suspension/roller-bearing-strut-front-top)

The bearings from Swedegamma (Urban) have just arrived (received 8 days after posting - great service from Swede and Australia Post!). Thanks Urban! :) I shall try to post some pictures of them for future reference to assist forum users. I am amazed at how small the many needle rollers actually are in the bearing cage. I guess they are there mainly to eliminate steering friction when the strut turns and not load bearing but you wonder whether they could have been a bit beefier for longevity wear wise.

How would a solid thrust washer machined out of teflon rod work as an alternative substitute I wonder?

We are planning to do a few more maintenance jobs on the Beta Coupe at the same time as replacing the strut bearings:

- The TRW steering rack boot, (or gaiter as it seems to be referred to more commonly on this forum), is split so that needs replacing. Not sure about rack bushes or what else might be needed re steering rack overhaul? I guess we will see on closer inspection. Dad has spare TRW tie rod ends so might as well fit them at same time.

- Will check whether steering damper has seized and probably remove it altogether based on experiences of Stuart et al with seized dampers which were removed or replaced. They do now seem to be very hard to find replacement wise.

- probably replace outer CV joint boots.

- I am not sure about condition of ball joints and control arm bushes but if they look worn and parts available I guess they should be done too.

- Neil made reference to possible failed steering column lower bearing as another cause of heavy steering so that needs to be checked too. Is that tricky to replace I wonder?

Beta maintenance ...a never ending cycle  ::)

I think that the rack needs to come out to replace the bearing.

The Coupe had its strut mount bearings replaced this week with new bearings smeared with moly grease. The bearings supplied by swedgamma as per this thread were the exact same type as on the car. The old bearings were still intact but worn and dry with no visible lubricating grease remaining. Tie rod ends and lower ball joints were also replaced as Dad had them in his parts box; existing lower wishbone bushes were ok. The steering rack was removed to fit a new gaiter and generously lubricated with moly grease. Apparently the rack was in good condition and did not require new bushes or adjustment. The steering damper (all metal type) was in reasonable condition and apparently still operating ok ie had not seized so was reinstalled. Steering column bearings were in good condition. The car needs a wheel alignment which will be done on Monday next week.

I have only driven the Coupe a few km home from the workshop today. The steering is definitely lighter, not miraculously so but it does require less turning effort during cornering. Small tight roundabouts are still a bit of a chore though steering input wise. I think we have improved the steering as much as is possible on a non PAS Beta,  back to original ex factory performance level. The contemporary Beta reviews I have read commented on the heavy steering of non PAS models so it will never be feather-light. My father was hoping for a 50% improvement or reduction in steering effort (based on his assumption that the pivot bearings were completely stuffed). I think we have achieved something more like a 25% improvement although it is very difficult to quantify the magnitude of the improvement. I am looking forward to a longer test drive after the wheel alignment is done. 8)

I have not had a close look at the old removed bearings yet (they need a good clean) but I have attached a couple of pictures of the old and new replacement bearings.

Thank you once again to all forum members who have assisted me and especially Urban (swedgamma) for supplying those replacement bearings. :)

PS An interesting day`s test cricket (England v Australia) of fluctuating fortunes today in Brisbane. :-\ The game seems very evenly poised at the moment. :o

PPS Apparently there were many admiring comments when the Coupe was in the workshop ;)

Completely off-topic, but I think the current Ashes series could be really interesting and closer than most people thought, as (despite all the hype) the two sides seem quite evenly matched. I think that Nathan Lyon's control, allowing him to hold up an end while the quicks rotate at the other end, may prove the difference. Should be an absorbing contest.

And well done with the steering refurb!

Thanks Mangocrazy :)

Unfortunately when the car was up on the hoist having the wheel alignment done, we noticed that one of the transverse links was damaged (bent) and that there were two stress cracks (about an inch long) on the rear chassis rails adjacent to the two front mounting points of the fuel tank. The tank does not appear to be sagging but it is a bit of a worry that the chassis rail is cracked near the mounting points. The damage appears to be old. So the rear wheel alignment has not been done pending getting the bent transverse link repaired or replaced.

I am amazed that the mechanic doing the work of fitting the priming electric fuel pump above the rear cross member, (who also did the front suspension and steering rack work a few weeks later), did not notice the transverse link damage and chassis rail cracks and report them to us. There are also a couple of dings on the front driver side corner of the fuel tank with what appears to be fresh exposed bare metal to me which made me wonder whether the damage was caused when the car was worked on recently by same said mechanic. My brother had a look under the car and reckons the chassis rail cracks and transverse link damage is old though so presumably not ???

Anyway the car is going back to the mechanic tomorrow for a hoist inspection of the problem by him.

I came across this old thread re a damaged transverse link and have contacted betaveloce by PM in case he still has a spare NOS transverse link and it is the right one for the car. (Post update - betaveloce`s spare link is no longer available).

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3395.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3395.0)

It might be an easier fix than repairing the damaged one. Perhaps we should also replace all of the link bushes at the same time? They are probably still the original ones on the car. Any thoughts re the poly ones available from LBP? I assume that the transverse links on the car are the "pressed metal" type? They are a C (or U) section channel configuration. Are they all the same length and interchangeable?  

The toe adjustment on the rear suspension appears to be via an adjusting nut adjacent to the bush of the rearmost of the pair of transverse links at the point of attachment to each hub on our series 2 Coupe. The wheel aligner assured me that there was no adjustment possible...I had to assure him back that indeed there was and we eventually found it! ;)

 

Yes those are the pressed steel ones. No stronger than they need be so they are very commonly bent.

I think the brakes are all the same.

NB it's one thing finding the adjuster, sometimes not so simple to make it adjust!

Here is an update post the hoist inspection of the rear chassis rail cracks near fuel tank front mounting points and bent transverse link at mechanic`s workshop today:

1) Bent transverse link is relatively minor and easily repaired - no need for replacement transverse link after all.

2) One of the rear chassis rail cracks near fuel tank front mount point (driver`s side) has open up alarmingly since last being inspected during the wheel alignment only a week or so ago. The car has only been driven back from the tyre retailer to home and back to the mechanic`s workshop (20 Km max) and the chassis rail crack on one side is now three times longer with fuel tank starting to sag on that side! :o

A temporary fix was achieved by wedging a short length of thick walled rubber hose between the front of the fuel tank and the centre of rear cross member to help support it and stop any tendency for the tank to sag further.

The fuel tank will have to be removed and a new piece of metal welded to rear chassis rails on either side to strengthen the rails where the fuel tank is bolted to rails. Some of the body deadener is peeling off the tank exterior so it will need a wire brush and recoating with body deadener. It would be good to replace the tank sender unit gasket and the flexible rubber fuel tank inlet filler hose (between inlet filler and the side of the tank) as it feels quite spongy, if both parts can be sourced.

There does not appear to be much in the way of rust in the chassis rails. Then again I guess it does not take much to weaken the rails especially if there are stress cracks from a previous impact or years of road surface thumps transmitted through the chassis. Our local roads are pretty bad patched, cracked and pot holed surface wise! I think South Australian roads are some of the worst in the country. Road surface maintenance expenditure has fallen well behind in recent years as a form of covert cost cutting. Very annoying >:(

Hopefully the tank interior is in reasonable shape. I guess we will see when it is removed and inspected. :-\

What exactly do you mean by 'chassis rails'? (obviously there isn't a chassis....). A picture of the crack would be interesting, I've never seen a crack down there bad enough to affect the alignment of the tank.

I'm guessing he means the box section that extends backwards from the sills, rather prone to corrosion there I would suspect some corrosion causing the weakness I can't say I've seen cracked sections on Betas here

Neil, you are right, poor terminology on my part - there are no chassis rails on a monocoque bodied car.

I think Rossocorsa has a better idea of what I mean than I do. ??? :-[

I think I was referring to the box section strengthened part of the underbody floor pan behind the rear cross member to which the fuel tank supporting lugs are bolted. The two cracks are adjacent to where the front of the fuel tank bolts to each parallel box section profiled channel. The crack is now much worse on the drivers side box section.  

I`ll have a look under the car again tomorrow to be sure (the car is garaged at my mother`s house). I`ll also try to get a few pics when it is on a hoist at the chassis repairer workshop.

I have just purchased a couple of spare Beta front strut thrust plate bearings from a local Lancia parts supplier. I thought they were genuine Lancia NOS but they came in their SKF packaging and are marked "Made in Germany". The correct SKF needle roller and cage thrust assembly part number is SKF AXK 4060. This is equivalent to Lancia part number 82303013. These bearings are readily available from bearing specialist companies. So now their are no excuses not to replace your worn out front strut thrust plate bearings with inexpensive SKF replacements!

https://www.skf.com/uk/products/rolling-bearings/roller-bearings/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/productid-AXK%204060 (https://www.skf.com/uk/products/rolling-bearings/roller-bearings/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/productid-AXK%204060)

https://www.acorn-ind.co.uk/p/skf/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/axk4060-skf/ (https://www.acorn-ind.co.uk/p/skf/needle-roller-thrust-bearings/axk4060-skf/)

https://bepltd.com/products/axk4060-40x60x3mm-skf-needle-roller-thrust-bearing (https://bepltd.com/products/axk4060-40x60x3mm-skf-needle-roller-thrust-bearing)

Andrew

Hi

Thanks for that, very useful and at the point I am putting the front strut tops together!

Looks like various U.K. suppliers at little money.

There is also a companion washer, the LS4060

Peter

Peter,
The companion washer fits above the bearing?
As I recall the lower bearing surface is a part of the strut top?

Nigel, (being tempted to repeat works due to non-centering steering!)

Hi Nigel

Off the top of my head I cannot remember the exact configuration, will have to dig out the strut tops I have just painted. I seem to think there are replaceable washers separate to the main metalwork of the strut both top and bottom.

Peter

Peter/Nigel,

There are two photos in reply#26 of this thread, (just scroll up the page), taken by the workshop which replaced the thrust bearing assembly in the front struts of the 1979 Beta Coupe 2L, showing the old thrust bearing in its position and the replacement Lancia Beta Original NOS part components which includes the thrust (Torrington swivel) bearing, one thrust plate (washer) and a rubber dirt sealing ring.

The thrust bearing appears to sit in the front strut top mount with the needle rollers facing downwards in contact with the thrust plate (washer) which presumably sits on the top of the spring upper seat.

Have a look at the photos which should made things clearer.

HF Stuart made this comment in reply #2: "I've encountered two different types (of thrust bearings) on Beta front struts. They are similar but not interchangeable. The good news is I think the different top mount types are overall identical - even if the components aren't".

So bear that in mind too!

Andrew

Hi

Ok, just dug out the ones I have sitting waiting to be cleaned and checked, I also thought I remembered two different styles when I put my Spider ones together many years ago…. As it happens of the four I have stripped this time, I do have the two styles and yes they are not interchangeable, but use the same strut parts.

Photos below show in the first one the same as above, where the bearing and its upper ‘washer’ clip into the top part of the strut, in the lower part is two parts, a washer with a flange which fits into lower part of the strut and a flat washer which fits just below the bearing. This flat washer appears to be retained by the rubber seal. When you strip the strut it is not always obvious this lower part is detachable. Note the bearing is retained by the upper ‘washer’ and does not look simple to extract or replace, so simply buying the bearing may not be a practical solution.

The second photo shows the second type, where the bearing is retained by the the lower washer which also has a flange to fit the lower part of the strut. This one you can simply lift the bearing out of the lower washer. The upper washer is a simple one and is retained when assembled by the small flange on the lower washer. Provided the lower washer surfaces are ok, this is the simpler of the two to refurbish/replace. The first one will need some playing around with to see if practical to. My thoughts are give them a good clean and see how smooth they are and leave well alone given all we are looking for is a smooth and resistance free movement of the strut.

One last thing to note is that the rubber seals are slightly different for the two types, however I think you could use them interchangeably if you needed to.

Peter

Excellent work Peter in clarifying the two different versions of beta front strut thrust bearing arrangements and providing a definitive photographic record of each along with an accompanying explanation. I think this thread is very nearly finally complete and resolved!

Just to clarify, am I correct in assuming that the aftermarket replacement SKF needle roller thrust bearing itself (SKF AXK 4060 with 60mm OD and 40mm ID dimensions), can only be used as a removable replacement bearing component with the thrust bearing arrangement in the second (lower) of the two photos in your reply #39, showing the lower supporting washer with a centre flange to locate it into the strut upper seat?

From your description the thrust bearing assembly in the first version, (first or upper photo), may be more than just an easily separated snug press fit into the top support washer with the 6 locating lugs and therefore not a serviceable replacement bearing? The Lancia original part number 82303013 thrust bearing part "kit" comes supplied with the bearing already mounted inside the top washer with 6 locating lugs as well as the lower thrust wafer thin flat washer and rubber seal, but not the lower flanged washer.

If that is the case, I may need to return the two replacement needle roller thrust bearings if they cannot readily be fitted into the top washer support housing, should the need arise in future. Not good news if that is the case for other Beta owners, with the first photo thrust bearing arrangement, searching for a replacement needle roller thrust bearing solution, given the scarcity of the Lancia OE parts, specifically #82303013 for the first version and whatever the Lancia part number is for the second thrust bearing version (Lancia OE part # 82372832?).

It also underscores the need to NOT leave the Beta front strut needle roller thrust bearings unserviced for too long, (cleaned and regreased), such that any lubricating (preferably) waterproof grease goes so hard and dry as to lose all of its lubricating qualities, resulting in the bearing needle rollers eventually being ground into a paste and causing the steering to become very heavy and difficult to drive. Because sourcing a replacement solution could well prove difficult!

Andrew

Hi Andrew

You are correct the first type will not split, I tried and it will deform the bearing if you try. The folded over securing lip is too big to allow the metal cased bearing to pop free, which is a shame. I measured the second type and the OD is 58mm, not 60, internally it is 40mm. Interestingly the second type has a plastic holder for the needle rollers whereas the first type has a metal holder.

Oh the joys of old cars eh?

Peter