Lancia Beta Forum

I gave up on this last year, but after a bad day at the office, I fancied getting the hammer out and got the discs off the front. My plan was to investigate 39 years of rust possibly moving the disc alignment off the hub, as they seem true when checked on a dial gauge, and only c 50% worn in terms of thickness.

There was some corrosion, but not much, so have cleaned it off, put it all back together and........ It's the same as it was.

Ok, so wheel wobble under braking,also felt through pedal,  not really noticeable up to 40mph, bad 45-55, better at higher speed. I know that the answer may be to drive faster, but any suggestions? Wishbone bushes?

Thanks

Mark

Not sure if this is any help but,  my son had a similar problem  with a SEAT  Leon.  Took him ages to find it,  did everything you did,   but eventually ended up changing the wheel bearing even though it wasn't showing signs of wear.  Problem solved ! ! !

That's interesting, as there is a very slight bit of float on the one bearing, which I have been trying to rule out as a potential culprit, which I found when clocking the the discs . I gather wheel bearing is pressed in type but as I have one, it may well be worth doing , as it will be in for MOT at the garage where they have all the kit in 3 weeks anyway.

Thanks

Mark

Having had a look and a read the Haynes book of potentially misleading guidance, it looks a bit of tricky job, requiring special tools?

I dont want it stranded at the garage because they either cant get it apart, or need to destroy a part I can't easily obtain to reassemble it.

Has anyone any guidance or done a 'duffers guide to wheel bearing replacement'?

I have an impact driver so hopefully I can get the hub nut off, which I assume is an early hurdle in the job.

Mark

The only tricky bit is getting the bearing retaining ring out in one piece.

It's fairly easy to remove by breaking it but to remove it properly requires a special castellated socket.

Ok thanks Stuart , I'll ask at the garage. I suppose I'll need a new nub nut too( pretty sure I've got one of those anyway)?

Any idea where I might get a new retaining ring?

The Haynes makes no mention of a tool to remove the ring but does say you need a press to do the job- true or false? The garage have a press anyway, but just in case I fancied doing it all myself......

Mark

Hi Mark

There was  guy on Ebay who was selling new ones (from Holland I think).

Peter

False.

A puller for removal and vice and sockets for reassembly work perfectly well

Update.

New front discs fitted and............ It's exactly the same.

So I suppose it's on to the wheel bearing change, but need a bit more room, as we are baby-sitting a couple of motorbikes while next door have their garage re- built. Car could be wheeled out to do the discs, but a three wheel coupe stranded on the drive is best avoided if I run into trouble with the hub on the bench.

On the brighter side, MOT passed with no advisories again. I take that to mean the wobble can't be anything too obvious.

Mark

Hi Mark

If you need the special tool for the bearing retaining ring, let me know and I can bring it at the Betameeta weekend as I just managed to buy one.

Peter

Mark
Probably a stupid thought but have you tried swapping the wheels around to eliminate the possibility of it being a tyre related problem?
Chris

Chris

No thought is stupid at this point!
 I was actually wondering about it being a balance issue and that's an easy thing to try.

Thanks

Mark

Hi Mark

On this subject, I once had a car where I could not get rid of what appeared to be a balance problem. The car was only 2 years old with limited mileage and so was unlikely to be worn bearings etc. Swapped the wheels round and had them balanced more than once, replaced two tyres with same type all without satisfactory solution. In the end I changed for different manufacturer and hey presto problem went away.

Just a thought of all else fails.....

Peter

Mark,

Just out of interest if you brake with the car in neutral does it still do the same thing?

Stuart

Another silly question but are the pads in the right way around, there is a front edge to pads and whilst they will still work they can cause vibrations if back to front.

All good suggestions and all things I can check out quickly.

Thanks all.

Mark

OK - latest update for the clinic.

Wheels swapped front to rear - no change.

Braking in neutral - no change.

Mark

I should of course of checked on Betaboyz site and both front and back are available. I just ordered a pair for the front.

Peter

An update.

 Iffy wheel bearing was indeed knackered ( though silent) and was replaced by the garage with the help of Peters lock- ring tool, which worked a treat. The brief to try to come up with other ideas may have sorted it and tied it down to rear brakes. Simple really, if you pull the handbrake at 45mph plus, it gives the same effect.

So, off with wheels, out with dial gauge and one rear disc is indeed outs by 12 thou, the other by 2 thou, so should be it.

Have now stripped the 'better' side, the issue is now trying to get the new disc to run as true as the old one. What a faff! Have given up due to bad light/knees.

Losing sense of humour now after another evening trying to get a brand new EBC disc (or indeed either of the brand new discs) to run anywhere near true. Not even stripped one side yet which is crazy.

Have cleaned the hub face to surgical standards.

The hub runs out by about 1.5 thou, but I can't get the fixed disc to less than 7 thou.  Any tips appreciated as it won't be going to Manchester next week on axle stands!

Mark

Hi Mark

Couple of points.

Is that with all the wheel bolts tightened up to make sure the disk is fully clamped?

Any idea on the tolerance allowed for the disk runout?

Peter

Peter

You are right on it - with the bolts actually torqued to some extent, rather than just 'nipped'  which I had done with the hub spinning free, the issue pretty much goes away. Run out limit is 2 thou, 0.05mm and with a bit inevitably in the hub, I think I can get that both sides.

Mark

Spoke rather too soon!

The 'good' side was pretty easy other than getting things apart as I assue this area has never been touched.

The 'bad' nearside was a pain and it seems the issue is the hub rather than the disc, as the hub face is not flat and there are some mysterous dings on the inner edge of the hub -see pics- cant imagine quite how the could have occurred, but these seem to coincide with the distortion, which is of course magnified by the time you measure at the outer edge of the disc.

As a result and to get the car back on its wheels and tested well in time for Manchester Show, I have re-fitted the old discs while I work out what to do with the hub. The result after losts of cleaning and fiddling is miles better than before but who knows for how long.

Mark

Hi Mark

Maybe when a wheel bearing was replaced, but that would be unusual to have been replaced on your car wouldn't it?

Peter

I seem to recall that on early Betas it was far from unusual for bearings to fail at 20k miles. I would suspect that there is either flange damage, a faulty bearing or the inner ring nut holding one of the bearings is loose.

There is no discernible play in the bearing, although it is not as free as the opposite side.

The distortion all seems to be on the face.

Seems best to find a hub and bearing for winter shut-down.

Mark

Mark,

I might be able to help there.

I wonder if someone has tried to persuade yours off in the past with an FGH rather than a puller?

Stuart

Seems feasible Stuart. Makes you wonder as it was main dealer maintained when on the road as far as I can tell, certainly in its first year with the first owner. The second who I bought it from was a master mechanic who serviced it even when it was dormant. Hate to think it was him, or indeed that he would have put up with the vibration. Then again he never went more than a few miles in it as he drove it with failing sight until he had to give up in 1982 when his sight loss became too much.

I suppose facing the hub is feasible, but I will look for another- I see Bayless have new ones at a cost.

Mark