Lancia Beta Forum

For VOSA inspection purposes I need the engine date of manufacture of a Lancia Beta Volumex engine number 455407, engine code 828 CB.1A.0. Block casting also has the number 82369691.
Can anyone assist please or direct me in the right direction?

I am afraid that fiat lancia records from this period are very limited, do you know the chassis number of the car it came from? if you have this I can tell you when the car was built but there are no detailed build records including engine numbers and so on, at least as far as I know anyway.
beta volumex (coupe/hpe) were built from about may 1983 to November 1984 if that helps at all?

No, unfortunately I do not have the chassis number of the original car.
It was fitted to a Beta Coupe, VIN 828BC1024989.
That may or may not have been the original car?

VIN codes in betas are not linked with engine numbers in any way, apart from the begining 828, what defines just the beta family. The number on engine block you mentioned is just a part number. The engine number is located above oil filter housing.

So Lancia Beta Volumex engine number 455407,
Engine code 828 CB.1A.0.
Block casting number 82369691.
Possibly Beta VIN 828BC1024989?
How can I find the date of manufacture of the engine?

that doesn't look like a vx vin code code, from about 1981 onwards beta vins start ZLA828 and the actual chassis number starts with a 9 (if I've remembered correctly!) i can try to roughly date the engine from known cars though ( working on the assumption that engines were chronologically numbered)

Yes please, any guidance much appreciated... >:(

well unfortunately the engines weren't used in precise chronological order so my best guess is 1983, if the original car was uk registered you need to find someone who can search the dvla records for that engine number and find the chassis number it was associated with, vosa or dvla could probably do that but whether they would I don't know. Another route might be a friendly person at a motor factors as most have access to the dvla records although I'm not sure if they can search just an engine number or not. I'm afraid the chassis number is the only sure way to get a date that I know of, for older betas (pre 78) even that isn't possible....

Thinking laterally, have you asked VOSA whether they need the precise date or would the 18 month production window mentioned above be sufficient for them?

Hi

Given that the Volumex was produced for just that short period and the engine is definitely from a Beta (the engine p/n shows that) then you have a date (take your pick on year I guess, maybe go for later?), in the absence of any other proof available, you can always ask for a letter from the LMC to confirm this as often happens for older cars with dating for DVLA where records do not exist.

The VIN number of the Coupe you mention has its production number around the 24000, so given there were what, around 100,000 produced? Then way too early for a Volumex which were only produced in relatively small numbers compared to earlier versions. So I suggest ignore that point.

Peter

I wish that beta chassis numbers were that simple!! but in any case that chassis number isn't from a VX

Thank you guys, I've just heard back from the official Italian Fiat/Lancia archives, they have no records ... can't help, so your input is better than theirs....!
I've just got to keep searching along the lines you have suggested.
 ::)

i think their usual line is that all records were lost in a flood, makes things very awkward especially for those with pre 78 betas

I was only sad enough to collect records on UK vx coupes so don't know about hpe or trevi, cars with lower engine numbers than yours were made in may 83 those a bit higher in november 83. I only have details on a proportion of the 150 UK cars but I think it is reasonable to conclude that your engine originates between these dates, not sure that the authorities would accept my opinion though!

incidentally 828BC1024989 was built April 1980 and would have been a S2FL 2000 coupe

Many thanks, I am grasping at straws, so any information is helpful.
No it may not satisfy VOSA, but if I can collect enough data, it may suffice...

I fear the LMC is a dead end on this one too. Barbara Longlands was looking to pass this one on to us, as like everyone else she has no records of engine numbers.

The DVLA have been cutting up rough recently because of a scandal involving fake Bugattis passed by their club as real.

Pete Gerrish (LMC President) did attend a meeting at Swansea though, and managed to engage the chief for dating who is now looking into the lack of factory records for Lancia and hopefully accepting the other sources that are available such as club archives and 'La Lancia'.

the best course is still to persuade dvla or vosa to check the computer records for this engine number, this will give date of first reg of the car it was fitted to and if they are willing to release the chassis number I can identify the month/ year of manufacture of the car. However I believe only the LMC is considered a competent authority for lancia build dates aside from Fiat.
The situation with betas is there is a very small amount of info for very early berlinas then there is a gap until 1978, following this records are ok aside from some gaps during the time that fiat and lancia records appear to have been integrated. the records only show last chassis number completed in each calendar month and no build detail at all, when the style of chassis number was altered (around the time of S2FL2)  they do not even break down each version as the numbers are simply allocated to each main series ie beta / delta etc.....
I still live in hope that the missing couple or so pages of the production list from 1972 to 1977 will turn up, I can't believe that no one has a copy somewhere! it's really odd that only these few years are missing but frustrating for Beta fans.

even then there are issues, I used to own the 1307th 2000HF built .......out of apparently 1229 cars ever made!! According to Pininfarina they built the bodies up to March '74 but Lancia list no production after '73. No doubt there are other anomalies too

If the chassis number can be found then the LMC will authenticate the date.

hopefully but I suspect that for DVLA it is not protocol to search for a chassis number from an engine number fingers crossed that I am wrong

Yes, I'll have a go, but doubt I'll get anywhere.
Slight correction, engine code is 828 B7.000, 828CB.1A.0 must be a casting number ....

Some more information, original car was HPE 2000 VX, first registered 6/1/1984, Reg no A339SUL, VIN 943375, engine no 455407, casting nos. 82369691 828CB1A.0, engine type 828 B7.000.
Any more guidance please, on date of engine manufacture? or the car?

Car build date May 1983

Thank you that is useful. Is there an official source of that information?

Either the LMC or contact FIAT UK I have the Fiat email somewhere.

If you are an LMC member Barbara Longlands will probably do you a date of manufacture letter on the basis of the expertise of this Forum. DVLA have recently officially accepted LMC's primacy in this area.

Thank you everyone, I could be getting somewhere at last!
I'll get in touch with Barbara...