Lancia Beta Forum

My first car was a 1981 beta coupe 1600. I'm sad to say that I drove it hard every day I had it but it took the punishment. A sales rep job made me sell it and buy something new. That was 20 years ago. The very sight of a Beta brings a smile to my face. So for years I  have lived with this affection for this beautiful car and since I discovered this forum I realize that I am not alone in my love for this car. Life took over and I got married and had two children so owning a Beta was low on the priority list. But now with the big 40 looming I have started planing my midlife crisis starting with buying a Beta. My head is saying buy a Fulvia, it's older and more classic, but my heart says Beta. I live in Johannesburg and have found a few on the market. So now I am torn between a coupe and a spider. Again my heart says coupe. Hopefully next time I post on this forum I will be the proud owner of a Beta. Greg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome Greg, good luck deciding Beta/Fulvia and if it's a Beta then Coupe or Spider.

Decisions decisions!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The fulvia coupe is a very different car, much smaller inside and a bit less powerful but fun and engineered to a much higher standard than a beta. Maybe not such an issue in your country but I think the fulvia is far more structurally rust prone than a beta the subframe being a particular pain. Personally I'd go for a beta coupe over a spider but others may disagree and probably a beta over a fulvia as a fun car however I would probably have a (Flavia) 2000hf over either, sometimes wonder why I sold mine a few years back but there you go with limited space and no time to restore can't keep everything!

A 2000HF is next on my shopping list. Beautiful cars.

Greg I expect you already know Lancia  Cape Town but if you don't give Felix a call  - whatever you end up with I suspect you'll need his help at some point!

Yeah think it needs to be a Coupe. The hunt starts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So today I found two Beta coupes, I was shocked to see how much had been stripped off them. My first reaction was "no way" but on closer inspection both the cars have solid body's, no rust anywhere. The owner assures me he has all the missing parts and more. I am gonna take another look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the one that is of interest has no rust (really?) and all the parts and not silly money, then worth pursuing if you do not mind the work. The real cost other than your time is in body refurb and prep for painting, then the painting. The rest can be pretty low cost if not a bit frustrating.

Peter

Hi Peter. You saying what I'm thinking, the cars gonna get stripped down anyway. Johannesburg is 1500 meters above sea level and 600 km from the nearest ocean, it has a hot and dry climate so our cars don't rust.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I finally found a beta. It's a few hours drive from where I live and have bought it without seeing it, but from the pictures it looks good. (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/d74914d151448d7664afbf5126b1a56a.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/14/3d3864586ac7bcd2b61b7dd270371cfe.jpg)
I am hoping to pic it up later in the week.
What I know. Engine is out and missing the head. Car hasn't run for 3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks intriguing . I'm not the expert on here but it looks like a facelift bonnet with earlier interior but the gear lever is not what I would expect with no wooden knob. I like the seats.

Others will add more but good luck and keep the pics and questions coming.

Mark

Nice one.

If it is fairly rust free as per earlier posts for your area, then should make a nice project. Not sure if the seats are original material (not seen any with that material before), but good to see another pre facelift S2 on its way back.

BTW the bonnet is correct for 2 litre pre f/l to clear the higher 2l lump.

Peter

Peter, how can you tell the difference between a S1 and S2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi

I am not the best one to tell you, others will know all the 'differences', but the S1 in the UK was only 1600 (s1 never had just 1800 on mainland EU and the S1 1600 had a different engine to the S2 with slightly different capacity) with the slim raised bit on the bonnet and twin headlights, not single piece headlights. Also the small trim piece at the back of the rear side window was 'chrome' effect not black.

Over to others to flush out the subtler differences!

Peter

264 2 litre Coupes were assembled in South Africa from knock down kits between 1975 and 1978. They would all be Series 2 (pre-facelift). Could be that yours is one of those? It will say on the plate on the right hand inner wing. I think they were assembled by Diahatsu at their SA plant? That would explain some of the subtle differences already noted above.

That's interesting info, i will check for the plate when I pick up the car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They weren't built by daihatsu (mistake in my article) but I've lost the info of who did build them, a photo of the chassis plates would be nice as I think it has the info

S1's had different bushes on rear ARB. Design is quite different to the S2 bushes.

I'll ping Andy C and see if he'll allow us to put his guide up as a sticky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looking at the door cards I suspect the car originally had tan coloured vinyl seats, in a hot country I don't think I could blame anyone for retrimming in cloth

Brian Long's book only mentions that Seat assembled the Spanish KDK's, using their own version of the twin cam engine. La Lancia does not mention the KDK's. Did Daihatsu assemble Fulvias in South Africa? I've definitely seen them mentioned somewhere. As you say, if this is a SA Beta the chassis plate should confirm this one way or another.

I have seen a picture of a SA beta chassis plate but I failed to save it, afaik definitely shows the assembling company. You are right that SA fulvias go have daihatsu chassis plates. The cars made in Thailand are even more mysterious though.

I once saw a 1800 beta on the island of Phuket. Thought it was a long way from home. Makes more sense now knowing they were made there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Info i can find is that Lancia's where manufactured in SA by TAK motors.

Confirmed from someone who worked there (pasted from a 2012 posting in the transmission section);

'...Also,when working for TAK in Johannesburg, we had a 5th gear syncromesh problem on brand new
Volumex's. I saved considerable warranty time by doing it this way.
[ TAK bought the cars from Italy without factory warranty,hence the saving] '

Nigel

Though this is mentioning assembled Volumex cars.

I know that TAK were the agents for Lancia and Ferrari in South Africa. I will start digging for information. Hoping to pick up the car this weekend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/02/8c0777dfb4bc55276aaba1820cbc673f.jpg)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These are the plates from the beta. Can anyone give me an indication of the year this car would be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My guess would be 1978. The last year of TAK production.

The lmc have a list of beta build dates but it only covers from about 1978 onwards tried to get a copy of this for info on here but unfortunately fiat wouldn't release it to anyone else
, this might show the build date of the CKD kit if not the assembly date in SA. There is no info prior to 78 unfortunately

Hi Neil

Are you aware of this list?

Peter

The info was passed to Barbara longlands by tim speechley prior to his retirement, it includes other Lancia models too.
Always bugged me that I can't access this info as I am a long term lmc non member for personal reasons and will never rejoin, however the info for individual cars should be really available for lmc members and non members are still able to contact fiat uk (I have contract emails somewhere if anyone needs them)

No, but I'll ask. I thought we only got what related to UK spec cars, if that is the case this car wouldn't be covered.

According to 'La Lancia', which Barbara uses for pretty much all her pre-Fiat car dating, 828 BC.1 008264 would be a 2 litre series 2 pre-facelift built between 1975 and 1978. The last chassis in this series would have been 011516, so maybe 1977 for this one? TAK only assembled 264 in total.

AFAIK they are simply lists of chassis numbers built specific years, no build Info and it is not always possible to determine to exact model for instance late series betas seemingly all followed a single number sequence.

Thanks for all the replies, I suppose I will find out when I go through the terrifying task of registering the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dn8iuhz79xgb7eu/Lancia%201978.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dn8iuhz79xgb7eu/Lancia%201978.pdf?dl=0)

this is the format, but sadly this is the only page that I have  :-[

According to my list seems that 12780 is the last chassis number of that type (???)

Spoke to Chris Hopkins, the LMC Librarian, they only got sales information, brochures etc. No production data.

Neil

Tim speechley told me by email that scans (I think not paper copies) of the available Lancia information had been given to Barbara longlands so someone has it somewhere! I had wanted to get a copy for the beta forum but he only wanted or was able to give it to the main recognised club in the UK

Alan

Have e-mailed Barbara.

Did you find anything about this yet Neil?

Yes, despite what Tim said Barbara is adamant that she didn't receive any electronic files from him. She did however get some paper production figure documents which she describes as being in a poor state. She says that the contents of the documents were published in Viva Lancia shortly after their receipt. I don't keep back copies of VL, but if what she says is correct (and I do vaguely recall something) it would be sometime in 2013. I've asked Chris to have a look for me and I'll put something on the LMC Forum.

Right, well I do know that the records were on paper tim told me that maybe he did give paper rather than electronic copies to her and obviously as a non member I don't see via Lancia, however I would have thought someone would have remembered it. There was some earlier stuff that turned up I wonder if she is thinking of that? Anyway if all else fails I did have Tim's private email address so could try to contact him again.

1969 onwards was mentioned, but it could well have been pre-Beta.

The records Tim had are 1978 onwards which is why they are of interest I recall seeing those earlier records but they end in 1974 I think?

I've had a reply on the LMC Forum. LMC only have the earlier records 1972-1975 as you allude to, so it may be worth approaching Tim again.

If he's still uncomfortable issuing them to a 'non-official' source I'm happy to receive them as a rep (committee member) of the LMC. The LMC librarian (Chris Hopkins) is also interested in having them for the library.

I will see what I can do, the records do remain at fiat UK but with Tim now retired I was concerned that they might just disappear.

For the record, here it is. Series 1 only I think.

And saloons only, AB is Berlina.

Peter

As this covers to 1977 there is clearly a page missing with the other beta models and gamma listed, the info tim speechley had ran from 1978 and shows monthly data, in combination with the early data ( if it can be found) this would allow build dating to year or month/year for all betas, it really needs finding there must have been more than one copy in circulation originally so they must be around somewhere.

These records actually came from a man called Simon Lake. So what happened to anything Tim gave to the LMC has become a bit of a mystery. I will persevere, but I don't think I'll get any further until I see the Secretary and Committee in February.

Neil

I will email Tim

I maybe need to do a bit of digging, I find it hard to believe that there aren't more copies of this information somewhere it looks like the kind of bulletins that would have been sent to dealers to me.

Partial result I've got data for 78/79/80 and 81 ( Lancia not just betas) ;D apparently records after that are mixed in with fiat.

Well done Alan, I look forward to seeing the results. Will this let you date Betas of this period to the month?

Only runs to May 81, I will try to presuade tim to send me the fiat stuff 81/84 so I can compile a beta list for those years but don't hold your breath! We need to find the missing sheets for the up to 1977 document someone somewhere must have a copy, on this set  I rather suspect that years ago someone discarded the beta bits on the basis that anything post fulvia was of no interest(?). I don't think that I will make the docs widely available we need to keep some info under our hats on here to encourage support. Haven't had time to study them yet to see if there is anything interesting included although I did notice it includes Seat built chassis numbers which I didn't expect.

It includes MonteCarlo and gamma by the way

This is very interesting info - would you be able to date my Beta Spider from the chassis number? The Blue plate that's rivetted on to the inner wing says ZLA828BS1 004292 and this tallies with the number stamped into the metal.

Not studied the way the list works fully (in theory it's simple but it usually pays to study stuff a bit!)
Looks like October 1979, would that make sense? I take it that its a 2000 facelift?

Sounds about right - registered January 1980, and is an S2 F/L.... cheers!

That's surprisingly quick reg after build! Some of these cars hung around forever before being sold!

After checking on the reg document, date of first registration was 22nd Feb 1980, which is still less than 6 months after the apparent build date .