Lancia Beta Forum

Chaps

Some of you will know I have been battling to get a Guy Croft VX engine and Emerald computer programmed Fuel Injection into my Montecarlo. NB mine is the one next to the fountain at last years Beta Meeta at the top of the Forum. Well I have done it and the car started last night  ;D
Now I just need to make it through the Rolling Road in mid August and I can drive to some events again.

See it is real:
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I look forward to using it very soon.

Cheers

Eric

That looks very tidy indeed- I clearly need to clean mine up a bit under the bonnet.

Look forward to hearing how it goes.

Mark

Brilliant news Eric, hope the rolling road goes well.

Having just got the Throttle Bodies, Emerald ECU and other associated bits for my Spider I'm glad to see it can be done! Well done Eric.

Wow. What power figures are you hoping for on the rolling road?

Shall look forward to seeing and hearing it. At which event are you planning to make it's debut?

I took the liberty of tweaking your pic.

Andy

It should be fine for at least 200BHP and 200 Ftlbs at the wheels with a flat torque curve i.e. no lag and the power coming in from maybe as low as 1500 rpm. This should make the semi sticky rear tyres earn their money and make me smile. I am not sure which events yet as I am not making plans until after the RR a lot can go wrong!!

Cheers

Eric

Chaps

A change of plans here has me installing the Volumetrico in the Montecarlo along with different cams having learnt a lot and driven the car. The Beta Spider will now be a FI VX engine making brackets and manifolds much more straight forwards and giving the front wheel drive Beta a chance to cope with the power!

See the pictures below of the Volumetrico (037 supercharger) trial fitted in the Montecarlo.

Cheers

Eric
 

Excellent work Eric. I have 2 GC fettled VX motors to put together when time permits!
What cams are you using on the Volumetrico Monte?

Ian

On the Monte I am using a Strada Abarth inlet cam on the exhaust side for it's short duration and higher lift and slot drive to run a cam phase sensor created from an Integrale. On the Inlet side I am using the Bayless A16 re-ground cam with short duration at 241 degrees but higher lift at 10.8 mm. This is using the experience of Bill at MacAuto who tested GC 3A and 2B combinations and other re-ground cams. This is very different to naturally aspirated as Supercharged engines do not like overlap and the 3A has a lot of overlap. Dennis in Denmark has done well with a Strada Abarth inlet and the standard VX exhaust, but this limits what is possible given the lift of this combination.

A lot of time was spent swinging the cams about with the VX on the rolling road having already tried 3A inlet and VX OE exhaust on the first rolling road session but the result was still compromised with my current Beta 2000 Inlet Strada Abarth Exhaust and not helped with a VX blower under performing at 5.5 PSI even with the smaller pulley fitted.     

On my second VX FI engine I am using 2 Bayless A16 cams as Mac Auto has in his race VX engine thread on the GC Forum. However I am also going to test some manifold deflectors (home built flow bench) to see if I can correct the dramatic imbalance in flow between number 1 and number 4 cylinder or I might have to run smaller injectors in number 3 and number 4 to balance the injection mixture! I would also need different spark plugs 7 grade in Number 4, 8 grade in Number 3 and 9 grade in Numbers 1 & 2. This is a difficult conversion so a DCOE on the front with mapped ignition is much easier, but beware the inboard manifold can still be an issue with uneven flow.

Eric

Eric,

I did see Bill's post on GC's forum, interesting reading and a great result. I have a GC 3A inlet and std VX exhaust cam using DCOE. I may try a 40DCOE first as GC recommends 28mm chokes for a 45DCOE due to poor signal in the venturi. I may also try long trumpets to see if this makes a difference to reverse flow.

It seems there is still a lot of uncharted territory with the VX and cam choice. I have spotted a Beta ie that may donate its exhaust cam, I am hoping the end drive arrangement is the same as VX?

Your comments on the inboard manifold flow are interesting and confirm a suspicion I had. I may eventually re visit my idea about using a Toyota SC14 blower which I gave up on as it was too hard to adapt to the Beta inboard manifold, however I may independently mount it and use a Beta IE or some other 8v injected inlet manifold, which would cure the flow issue.

Good luck with your Monte!

Ian

The end drive on the 2000 IE is the same as the VX cams and will run the VX Dizzy or a cut down Integrale Dizzy as a Cam Phase sensor for sequential injection.

Eric

Wow what an awesome job, it looks like it was always meant to be there. Bet you can't wait to get it really cracking. The volumetrico does look a tad more butch in there.

Chaps

I am heading to the Rolling Road with this next week if I can get it all back together. Finishing the outboard manifold has been a big step forward. I though I would add some pictures. NB I am using a pair of Strada Abarth cams as the lift profile of the bayless cams is not 10.8mm more like 10.2mm in the current stock.

Here's hoping some of you get to see and hear this car soon.

Eric
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Guys

I have managed to get the VMET Montecarlo up and running and have driven it up and down the Brecon Beacons for a lot of the weekend and it is Quick. By which I mean I can stay with an Alfa 24V V6 in an X19 without going over 4000 RPM. This is totally different to drive than a normal Beta being more like a turbine and a breeze to just drive past slower vehicles. I am pleased it was dry in Wales!

I now have to fix all the issues a shakedown like this shows up then I can crack on with more fun driving and finishing the Beta Spider FI VX.

Cheers

Eric

Excellent news Eric!! keep up the good work!

I must admit having battled all kinds of understeer in a FWD Beta on the track with 190BHP, I cant imagine what a high powered FWD VX will be like......

I really think you did the right thing putting the Volumetrico in the Monte!!

Nice work Eric. Quicker than a certain red Monte with an Alfa V6 in it owned by P Millet by any chance  ;) ?

When do you anticipate showing it, the Lancia AGM next week near Cambridge?

You are doing a VX Spider as well as your Monte :o ? You don't make things easy for yourself  ;).

Andy

Yes I was at the LMC AGM last weekend with the car and had some fun on the Sunday Drive. Yes I am still finishing the VX FI Beta Spyder and where would the fun be in doing things the easy way!

Cheers

Eric

Hi Fellow Monte Fans it is nearly Spring 2015 so time for the next stage in the saga.

Last year I nearly got to the potential of a Supercharged Montecarlo with an 037 Volumetrico Supercharger but a few things prevented the performance I should have seen. I was told at the rolling road session the engine was not using all the available boost in fact only 8PSI of nearly 17PSI available. This was seen as mostly down to restriction from the exhaust but also some restriction from the head. So it went very well to 4,000 RPM but was far down on it's potential. So a new head and exhaust might yield an additional 50-60BHP and maybe and extra 30 -40 Ft lbs of torque!!

I now have the Guy Croft Big Valve head (45 inlet 40 exhaust) ready to fit and I drive to Essex to have the new Exhaust made this Saturday. If the plan works the car will be mapped at the end of March and should be amazing to drive.

As ever so much could go wrong so I have not yet signed up for the Goodwood LMC trackday.

I hope to see you in 2015 with my Montecarlo working as it should  ;D

Cheers and enjoy Spring

Eric

Hi Eric

Should be something else when you get it finished, hope it all works out ok.

Peter

Keep at it Eric, if it's worth having, etc etc.

It would certainly brighten up the Goodwood Track day, which I understand, as in recent years, is struggling for entries. Day membership available for anyone interested?

Neil

The problem with goodwood for many is that it is just so far south it's one hell of a trek just to get there, I know they tried a northern venue once but it was a bit half hearted, shame there's nothing available a bit nearer the Midlands

Totally agree, that's why I've never been. It's on my 'bucket list', but I can see this being, if not the last, one of the last.

Well, nearly good news as I have the impressive new exhaust made by Hayward & Scott and the GC 45 40 head. Unfortunately one of the cam lobes on the Exhaust side is damaged so since I have no spare Strada 130 TC Inlet cams I cannot re-build the car. I am now waiting for a Quote from Cat Cams for new Billet cams suitable for my Supercharged application. I will have to wait at least 2 weeks and still put the car together and get it mapped. The target has to be Donnington Historic Festival with the new unrestricted Volumetrico Montecarlo.

The Exhaust is Ceramic coated inside and out so no heat wrap or extra heat shields required. The Tail Pipe is 70mm ID throughout.

Some pictures to pass the time!

 

Roll on May.

Eric

Well the sun is out and the car works again  ;D

It is making 277BHP and 230 ftlb of torque on 97 Octane with no less than 200 ftlb all the way from 1800 RPM to the rev cut at 7200. With the very low CR of 7.5:1 and the horribly unbalanced inlet manifold this is a result. It is quick and effortless ;D ;D

However had I gone for 10:1 pistons and built a custom inlet manifold with the in balance removed I might see 320BHP and 250 ftlbs. I think I will just drive it for the summer before any more change.

Cheers

Eric   

That must one quick car now.itll give a Ferrari a run for its money being so light,must be in the 4 seconds region 0 to 60. Can we see some more pictures of the whole car please Eric on here and on the monte consortium

Well done Eric.

Chaps

The Epic Tale continues with new hope and new parts for 2016. Having used and driven the VMET Monte it was time to get the rest of the power some more refinement and some safety with things like a progressive throttle and traction control. So I am currently installing a Link G4+ Fury ECU along with a full new engine bay loom new fuse boxes etc. I am installing drive by wire (Porsche Throttle body), knock sensors and individual cylinder control of both fuel and ignition in addition to 10:1 pistons and a new custom inlet manifold.

The Ignition coils are from a Chevy LS2 with Coil Near Plug looking more subtle than the coil on plug alternatives. I am going for e Throttle because it will remove the way the car would jump forward 10 feet at the initial touch of the throttle and remove the lumpy idle. This is a better option than yet more springs on the throttle and to scaring everyone to death with a growl and jump response!!

I will also have some modifications made to the exhaust so the trip to Turin does not leave me stone deaf.

So I have a huge challenge with around 120 wires to install correctly whilst adding sound proofing and fitting a Tilton twin MC pedal box to extract the best out of the 6 piston brakes at the front and 4 piston items at the rear. Of course I am also making new rear quarter windows with air extractors, getting a rack fitted to a rear engine lid and getting cloth seats re-trimmed so Turin is a nicer drive.

Some challenges are tougher than others like getting the traction control trigger wheels sorted out for all 4 wheels but I have a cunning plan in Baldrick style.

So if I look tired next time you see me you will know why.

Roll on Summer 2016

Cheers

Eric   

Good luck mate, hope it all comes together.

Sounds absolutely bonkers - in the best possible way, of course! Bonne chance, Eric!

Graham

Bonkers probably describes it and me nicely, but I do like a challenge and it is different to the twin weber, twin throttle body engines I have already built and run.

Good Luck with the French engine exchange.

Eric

Thanks Eric. I appreciate bonkers - it's so much better than boring, especially when applied to cars (and motorbikes). Keep on keepin' on...  ;D

jealous of both your skills and what will be the finished article

Some pictures of the car with the earlier VX at Castle Combe

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Tremendous!

Fantastic...! Cornering beautifully flat and balanced, by the look of it as well...

Eric, I'd love to follow your work on the hilton pedal assembly installation.  Please take pics and share.  Love this car of yours.

OK I have now worked out and built Drive By Wire onto the S2 Pedal box with the help of a part from the Tilton 600 pedal box and I have trigger rings on the rear drive shafts to signal to the Astra Hall effect crank sensors for traction control. I have the modified exhaust and soon the inlet manifold will be made. The new fuse & relay box for the ECU is built so after a little sound proofing it is full speed ahead on the wiring. Although I have made the loom connections for the Toucan CAN bus ECU Sensor display and changed the Tacho resister so it can display a modern low side Rev Counter signal.   

No-body said this would be easy but at least the 10:1 pistons are installed now.

Roll on July when I hope to get the car to the Silverstone Classic event.

Eric   

Time for a Photo of the Work in Progress

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Wow. The attention to detail is incredible. Look forward to seeing it in action sometime soon, hopefully.

The only thing I recognise is the "cam-box" covers.  Wonderful ! ! !

So the car now has a LOT of new wire and is very soon off to the Rolling Road now it has a working Link G4+ Fury ECU. I did not finish the Traction Control and I will now leave that until after the 3000 mile Turin trip with the Monte Consortium in mid September. I need the CNC shop to finish the trigger rings for the front hubs and I have to fabricate brackets for the Vauxhall Astra Crank sensors that act as signal pickups.

I am looking forward to using the Toucan sensor information display and just being able to drive the car again after so much change. A couple of pictures to entertain:
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Cheers

Eric

mmmm nice :)

So Now the car has some new paint roll on Goodwood.

Super impressive work Eric. Bravo.

How did you get on with the 10:1 compression pistons? I’m looking into having some pistons made this year but wasn’t planning on changing the compression significantly, if at all.

Did the dyno yield good gains?

Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian

Higher compression needs more control over ignition, consistent use of high octane fuel and the Cometic MLS gasket and ARP studs I use. I see around 300 BHP and 270 ft lbs of torque. It is frankly too much without great throttle control. If you build in turbo type mapped ignition with a sensor on the carb throttle spindle and better knock sensors as I have fitted it will make for a quick VX that does not die from detonation.

Eric
 

Thanks Eric,
I thought it might be a little tricky controlling detonation with those boost+compression levels.
I’m currently on 9 psi with 8.5:1 and have the max advance held back to 29 degrees (+/-2 degrees flutter) or the detonation creeps in.
The new bottom end I intend building this year will be much the same as the current one but with forged pistons/rods, oil jets squirting from the main bearing caps like the fiat 1.2/1.4 16v engines and trigger wheel/sensor mounts for programmable ignition initially then ultimately FI.
So to keep it simple I think the current compression mark is a safe bet.

Do you have a preferred piston manufacturer?

Ian

Hi Ian

My pistons came from Guy Croft and were made by JE to his design parameters. I also have Cunningham Forged Rods in this engine which have oil spray to the pistons via grooves in the rod cheeks. No Oil Jet install required. If you fit mapped ignition from the start that has load via a map sensor you can dynamically back off the advance and get benefit from 10:1 pistons. Obviously having Knock sensors and water/ air temp is even better. I fitted a pair on the exhaust side of the block.

Anything you can do to reduce induction heat is a winner so no metal box on top of the engine picking up heat and no heated inlet manifold. 

Be aware FI on these engines is very tricky because of the airflow in balance. This is why I have the ECU I do and the Cam Phase sensor adapted from an Integrale for sequential ignition. DCOEs and DCNFs mask the problem at the expense of fuel economy.

Enjoy

Eric

Thanks Eric, some very good food for thought there to help me decide which direction to go on several aspects.

I like the thought of a knock sensor but thought it might be difficult to achieve properly.
Air/water/manifold and ambient pressure/T-pos sensors etc are a given imo. Will have to see how best to achieve knock installation.

Still considering a DCOE double throttle body type injection system for simplicity but I realise there are pros and cons to this setup.

Thanks again for the info.

Hi Folks

I am working away quietly on getting Electric AC into my Monte before heading to Turin in September this year. Slight understatement "this is a little complex" One of the elements is the Radiator with AC Condenser. The Monte original is not well suited to modern AC gas.
The Condenser comes from Car Builder solutions as does the core AC Heater unit. The Electric AC Compressor from Australia. I had 2 radiators made is it takes months to get this done so a spare was essential.

Enjoy
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After driving to Classic Le Mans I was forced to show the Monte some love. The clutch was slipping. I had a misfire like 2 pistol shots. The exhaust cracked and the handbrake was not playing nicely. Oh and the Electric AC was dripping cold water on my foot!

I ended up doing so many jobs I wrote an article called Whilst I am here to amuse Monte owners.
Nearly back on the road. Just the AC casing drain to fix then re-build the interior.     

The Helix High performance clutch came out as soot, some poly bushes had melted and the inboard Weber Pico injectors had to be replaced along with fitting my spare R10 Supercharger.

At least I am getting use out of the large Garage I bought that came with a free house!

Eric

Hi Eric
Crikey that sounds like an intensive/expensive trip.
Was there a problem with the R10 or just testing the spare?

Sounds like it’s worth installing a hammock in the garage.

Hi Ian, The VMET R10 had a casing leak and I suspect 1 internal oil seal is letting oil by into the blower. I have the phasing jig and all the reference numbers for bearings and seals so I just have to take the brave pill to get the VMET back to its best in the back ground.

Eric

OK I just drove my Montecarlo to a very high end Nismo garage that has state of the art 4 wheel alignment. Yes that is right actually drove it with so far no oil or water leaks and a working clutch. Also no comedy misfire either. Now looking to drive to the Monte consortium EOTB and I can finally get on with the Beta Spyder.

Eric