Lancia Beta Forum

Hi all,

So there is progress towards putting my Dad's IE Coupe back on the road. It has cleaned up nicely and is cosmetically good. A few bits to tidy but the major problem is the fuel system.

The car has only been rolled in and out of the garage and cranked for a few seconds max.

The car ran previously, but would cut out ofter a short time. The fuel pump has been replaced in the past without curing the problem, and this may even have been damaged in a short amount of running since.

I'm about to peer in to the tank tomorrow, but I assume the it is full of a combination of rust, manky fuel and associated crap. A few questions:

If the tank needs more than a clean, would a new HPE tank we have be able to used (not sure if these vary depending on model, I can check the part number, I have a feeling the answer is no) ?

There is an internal tank filter I understand- is it obvious? This will probably be caked in the mess described above.

Additionally, should the fuel pump be heard running when the ignition is on?

Thanks for the replies

Felix

Fuel pump should only run when cranking and running, (obviously). The air flow meter flap turns the fuel pump on, if you don't want to crank the car over, take the induction pipe off the afm, and push the flap in, you should hear if the pumps working, if it's not check the inline fuse, green fuse holder on offside strut tower, yellow wire going in and out either side.

The HPE tank will be OK if it's from an injection model - the carb tanks don't (IIRC) have the baffles around the pickup.

The in tank filter is obvious and will probably be solid with gunk

The fuel lines could also be blocked with crud

Are the plastic tanks for HPE available on the market?
Dear Flex, take a read the other associated threads here it should clear the fuel delivery problems on i.e.s that are common.

Hi all, thanks for the help. We have two tanks which are the same, one is used and good, and the other is new( i think), but dusty from storage: I identified them as HPE tanks, but I'm not sure: are they for Carb or injection models? Are the VX tanks the same as the injection ones seeing as they use the same fuel pump?

Thanks

Felix

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/flexebay/th_tanknew2.jpg) (http://s598.photobucket.com/user/flexebay/media/tanknew2.jpg.html)

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/flexebay/tankused2.jpg) (http://s598.photobucket.com/user/flexebay/media/tankused2.jpg.html)

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/flexebay/tankused1.jpg) (http://s598.photobucket.com/user/flexebay/media/tankused1.jpg.html)

I have the same tank in my HPE ie and I am pretty sure the same are for ie and VX models.

Hi

Definitely not early carb model tank as per my carb Spyder.

Peter

Thanks for the help guys!

So, quick update:

The view that greeted me when inspecting through the sender unit hole:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130623_013_zpsd231ffe0.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130623_013_zpsd231ffe0.jpg.html)

The Sender:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130623_006_zps38e8d1c5.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130623_006_zps38e8d1c5.jpg.html)

So the tank came off, fuel was drained. It had the colour and opacity of an Espresso coffee, smelt nothing like petrol and was generally disgusting. It is grim inside:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130624_012_zps7ec4848a.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130624_012_zps7ec4848a.jpg.html)

The spare new HPE tank compared to a the coupe IE tank (The only external difference being the filler pipe):
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130624_004_zps3ad55af5.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130624_004_zps3ad55af5.jpg.html)

The nice shiny new sender for comparison:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130623_021_zpsa80bfea0.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130623_021_zpsa80bfea0.jpg.html)

And the other used spare tank is in fantastic condition too fortunately:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130624_009_zpsc16f593e.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130624_009_zpsc16f593e.jpg.html)

(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o267/flexb/WP_20130624_008_zps964acad1.jpg) (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/flexb/media/WP_20130624_008_zps964acad1.jpg.html)


So the question now is whether to clean/ coat the old tank - at great expense and/or dificulty or modify the filler pipe on one of the HPE tanks...

Fun times

Additionally, with a bit of hosepipe attached to the tank outlet (that goes to the pump) it was impossible to blow into the tank, I presume due to the internal filter being so blocked that it wasn't even letting air past, let alone fuel. The same procedure on the cleaner tanks gave little if no resistance, so unless there is a non return valve in the Coupe tank and not the others it must just be mega blocked! Unfortunately this may have seriously harmed the pump...

The fuel that came out of the fuel filter when I removed it was beautiful in comparison: obviously old, but only a slightly darker yellow than fresh petrol and not coffee like. Hopefully the issues only go as far as the tank/ pump.

I would modify the HPE tank.

Me either.
Is it the swirl lobster pot visible on the pictures through the opening mentioned in few other threads? Where is placed the internal filter? 

The filter in the tank is in the middle  when viewed through the sender unit hole.

I looks like the sensible thing is to modify the tank. I see two options:

1. Us the old coupe filler line, braised on just outside the tank, or

2 use a length of rubber/ silicone flexible hose between the tank and the filler neck (in the boot)


The concern over the second option is that due the space available, the tank join would be below the level of the fuel in a low tank - leading to the possibility of it leaking, though I suppose if it was securely fastened it should not be an issue.

Cheers

Felix

Go for option 2, if it leaks then option 1 is the way to go.  I would cut both pipes 75mm from tank, but also cut the brace plus some webbing from the tank, so you can re-use on the hpe tank utilising the brace on exsisting bolt mount.  Cutting 75mm from the tank would keep the joint outside the car and easily checked.
 

My only concern would be then the lack of beading on the end of the pipe. Whilst it is not under pressure, I would be wary of it coming loose due to vibration. Not sure if it is possible to add a bead whilst the cut pipe is in situ on the tank? Apart from that 2) sounds a sensible way to go.

Peter