Lancia Beta Forum

I have just come across www.howmanyleft.co.uk (http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk) and its got me thinking, is my 1975 spyder the oldest running syder left in the UK?

I would be so bold as to claim it is unless you know different!!!!

Its certainly older than mine

there are two shown on sorn for 1975 so 50/50 chance I think, however there may be other cars that do not show on there such as ones that have been off the road since before sorn, any in dealers  stock etc. so it is not 100% definitive

There are so few S1's full stop. Single figures for Coupes/Spiders??

Hi

Out of interest what is the official Lancia number for the car, should give you an idea where it fitted into the production schedule as so few S1 Spyders were made.

Peter

Your car certainly sounds like a good candidate for the earliest Spyder, as already proposed your best bet is to check the chassis number.

Sadly the date of registration is not much to go on, as cars did sit around for a while before being sold/registered. (One of mine was built May 78 and registered August 81)

Also its difficult because there is not much info available from Fiat/Lancia UK on Series 1 cars :-(

Thank you for your comments and advise
Registration 01/09/1975
Chassis no 828AS01285
Does this mean anything to anyone

I bought the spyder 8years ago and then spent 5 years getting it fit to pass an MOT but although she has been on the road the last three summers the weather has not allowed too much mileage. When I bought it I was told it had been off the road for 20years and in that time had had 8 owners each of which had left their mark on the car so is quite a mongrel but I must say looks good for it with its zagarto front rear and side skirts coupled with it lowered suspension

From a 1979 donor coupe
2.0ltr engine plus electronic ignition
Dash and instrument panel
Steering column

The car had been retrimmed in nice leather but with the original 1975 wiring Loom so imagine the problem that I faced when I got it home and realised nothing was connected electrically behind the panels. Wiring for points and an engine with electronic ignition, a different number of plugs and pins in different order to t plugs on the back of the instrument panel were just two of the problems and when I bought her I thought the main problem was missing drive shafts, if it wasn't for the fantastic body work I think I would have been owner number 9 that gave up and sold it on!!

Carrying on the theme I picked her up from the tuners today having fitted a guy crft inlet manifold and twin dellortos over the winter lets hope we get some summer this year 8)

Hi

Certainly looks early and definitely Series 1. The 828 is Beta, the A is series 1 and the S is Spyder.

Usually Lancia started at 1000 with car numbering from what I have read, so car number 285. Also from memory there were only a small number of Series 1 cars made as the time between S1 and S2 was very short, around 1 year?

Shame you do not have the original engine as that also is specific to the S1 cars, though I think the later ones are actually better engines.

I can appreciate the issues with the wiring, must have been a bit of a nightmare.

Peter

Brian Long's book suggests 514 S1 1600 Spiders and 225 1800 (which weren't available in the UK IIRC). That's out of 9,390 spiders built in total

I've got a 1975 S1 Spyder too.
Ashley

Hi Ashley

Just to answer the question raised, what is the serial nos of the car you have?

Peter

there is another series one spider which appears to be an addition to the two already mentioned I checked details on line and they are as follows

Date of Liability   01 09 2013
Date of First Registration   14 10 1975
Year of Manufacture   Not Available
Cylinder Capacity (cc)   1592cc
CO2 Emissions   Not Available
Fuel Type   PETROL
Export Marker   N
Vehicle Status   SORN Not Due
Vehicle Colour   RED
Vehicle Type Approval   Not Available
Vehicle Excise Duty rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate   £123.75
12 Months Rate   £225.00

Make   LANCIA
Model   SPYDER
Description   1600
Fuel Type   Petrol

Ashley
Can you post the chassis number and date of registration of your 1975 spyder

Rossocorsa
That's interesting what site have you used to find a third 1975 spyder. I can only find two on the only site I know of "howmanyleft.com"

Cheers
Oldbones

I just know the reg number well known car in UK lancia circles, a 1600 in (if my memory serves me well) rosso capannelle. Cars will not show on 'howmanyleft'  if they are in the possession of a dealer so neither taxed nor on sorn or have been off the road before sorn started, also if the description on the dvla database is inaccurate or more than one description was used (example of this volumex coupés are listed as 'coupe volumex' or 'coupe 2000 vx')

I don't know who owns that spider these days, probably the owner from years ago but as I am not an LMC member I can't check their database  

another quirk of the dvla listing is that the car is listed as 'spyder' when lancia almost invariably used 'spider'

I checked the updated figures on how many left and it shows 3 first reg in 75 and one first reg in 76 which are all probably s1 (the 76 could be either s1 or 2) and all are shown as on sorn
The data is confusing as it seems some cars have no record of supposed date of manufacture one of which just happens to be a 75 registered 1600 spider.

VIN 828AS01357
First registered 7/11/1975
Ashley

Hi Ashley
If Peter is correct my spyder was the 285th made and yours was the 357th made  ;D. Is yours still original as mine is a real mongrel with lots of parts from a donor car from1979

The paperwork would suggest it's original, although the red paint and gold wheels are anything but. I fell for it looking like that though, so I'm unlikely to pay to refurb it back to beige.
Ashley

Yep that beige would be a step too far, not that pretty even in the 70s, still not convinced about gold wheels though!

At any other time I'd hate gold wheels too, so hideous.

Hi All

Interestingly, for me at least, I was just trying to read the engine nos in the engine bay and I happened to read my model nos, never really taken much notice of it before. The serial nos is 1074, which I guess makes it one of the first batch of RHD S2 pre F/L Spyders. It was registered in Feb 77 from memory which I guess makes sense as I think the S2 started production in mid to late 76?

Peter

According to glass's check book (fairly reliable but not 100% infallible ) 1600 s2 spider announced march 76 available UK from September  first chassis number imported 1004, the 2 litre was available from June first chassis number 1145

Hi

So not that reliable, unless it was a demonstrator, but would have expected registration back in Sept for that.

Peter

Oops typing error on my part that chassis number should read 1004


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Hi

Yes, that makes more sense now.

Thanks for the update.

Peter

Hi All

Just as an add on to this thread, I am curious if anyone else has an early S2 Spyder and has the same setup as mine?

Mine is missing the two small dampers on the engine and gearbox and has an old style petrol tank, which does not have a 'doughnut' seal around the outlet/level sensor.

Also there is no provision to attach the damper to the gearbox, ie the place on the casting and on the bodywork are just not there.

Lastly the rear lights have a small reflector, rather than the larger one used on later s2 pre and post f/l

I suspect the early cars were simply uprated S1 cars and the dampers and later fuel tank came later in 77.

Peter

I suppose I'm going a bit off topic here, but what if any, are the effects of not having those dampers as part of the mount set-up?
I have replaced the gearbox mount, successfully made a front (chassis) mount and need a timing belt end mount for my car and although I've never checked them, I suspect the two dampers are less than healthy and if they're seized, I'd consider discarding them as I did with the steering damper which has been a relative success as far as ease of low speed steering goes

Your engine mounts will fail much faster, secondly drove train refinement will be reduced as the engine and gearbox unit will move in a less damped manner under power application, Lancia added the dampers for good reason

I must admit that as I am scrapping a slightly later car than mine at the moment I do intend taking the mount points off it with a view to having them added to mine. The hard part will be changing the gearbox casing etc, so not a quick job, but should be well worth it, because as you say, they were not put on for no good reason. Interestingly the 1300 Spyder/Coupe according to the parts book I have also did not come with dampers, perhaps Neil could confirm this (or anyone else who has a 1300)?

I did buy the two dampers from Matt when he was doing a batch of them, so have them safely tucked away for when the day comes.

Peter

Possibly the 1300 didn't have enough torque to warrant it , I will check my info at home if I find time (and remember, maybe  signs of old age setting in!)

Both my 1300's (pre & post facelift) have the dampers. They are shot on the 'new' one which is probably why the front engine mount is in such a poor state? Luckily I have a pair from the group purchase we made.

Ah, just rechecked and it lists for 1300 Saloon only without dampers, not coupe or spider...

Peter

I think that was a budget version of the sedan still with first series body probably for Italy only

My 1975 S1 1800 coupe does not have any provision for dampers either. The gearbox end plate is an easy swap, you do not have to strip the whole box. You will also need the correct driveshaft extension housing for the engine side mount.

Hi

That is correct, the S1 parts book does not show any dampers, now I just need to double check what the part number on my engine is just in case it is a S1 1600 and not S2......

Peter