Lancia Beta Forum

The subcription will be used for two primary uses.

1. To help pay the ongoing annual costs of the forum, like ISP costs, domain registration and any expense for events attended by tthe  LBF.  (This does not include hotels & food, that is met out of our own pockets)


2. To administer/control access.  Historically we have had people make no contribution to the forum, either financially or by way of input or assistance to others and simply use the forum as a source of free advertising to a targetted database of Beta owners, once they have made their money they disappear. Or only want to take advantage of the technical information made available through this forum.

Important - Please Read[/b
]If we go subscription based, then the goal would be to only make certain "Boards" accessible via a subscription.  (Downloads & For Sale would be two examples, possibly more. So you have a choice, if you don't want to subscribe or you don't need to sell anything then we are not forcing you to pay.

It will make administration of the forum easier.  If we see people posting items for sale outside of the "For Sale" section then the post will be deleted immediately.

The majority of the forum would still be publically viewable, just we need to find a better way to ensure that the forum is not just "used & abused" as it does become tiresome when all the support is done on a volunteer basis but some people just want to take advantage for nothing more than  personal gain.

My opinion (and I'm speaking wholly for myself) is that not having access to a downloads section or for sale section probably isn't enough of an incentive. 

For me, the real benefit of this site is the advice and guidance - and that would remain free? 

I think you would be better limiting access to maybe a general discussion section (or beta talk?).


Whatever you do, I am happy paying £10 a year
 

What needs to be confirmed amongst the admins is whether the "Technical Stuff" board is also restricted to a "subscribed user". 

This is where most of the fixes and technical advice posts are located - but these things are never the decision of a single person, we have to operate democratically and try to ensure that we go with the majority but not exclude potential new members.

It's a fine balance.

I'm happy to contribute not too bothered to get too many extras but I think is is a good idea to restrict certain areas to subscribers only, I think the basics should remain open access though including the basic technical help section

On the subject of For Sale, I was originally in two minds about needing to subscribe to list items, given that some members might benefit from the parts being offered. However given the low cost of subscription likely, it makes sense to ask for that from any seller, afterall just as cheap as Ebay etc and far more targetted.

The question in my mind is, are only those who subscribe able to view the items for sale, or can there be a time window before the items are available for non subscribers to view the items?

I think this time limit way is the LMC policy from memory. No idea if practical to implement on the forum software however.

Peter

I think it may be best if small one off posts of parts can be made FOC, but breaking, trade or cars should be members or a small fee for outsiders. One thing that we really need to avoid is the vintage crowd looking to buy restorable volumexes and scrapping them for the supercharger  so possibly cars for sale should be visible to full members only (???)

Alan, 

While I agree that it would be nice if we could allow small/one off posts or a small fee for non-subscribed members the reality is that it would take considerable effort to manage and track that kind of detail.  I've not yet seen any off  the shelf software for SMF that comes anywhere close to what you've been suggested, so it would need bespoke coding. 

So I personally, do not think it would be practical to aim for that level of granular control.

Two separate sections one for complete cars , breaking for spares etc and another for small items of spares ?

Thinking about it a bit  the forum doesn't want to lose it's generally informal friendly nature so perhaps it's best not to over complicate things

I do want to get into trying to create a Utopian solution, when its simply too complex to do so.  If we can get a good balance and the vast majority of members are happy with the end results then thats a satisfactory result as far as I am concerned.  Trying to think of every concievable option and then cater for it is not going to work in my opinion.

I am sort of starting to feel a bit guilty now as I started this ball rolling and not sure if it needed to be started at all now. If the donate key had of worked I probably would have not said anything.......

I know we have had the poll and most folk who bothered to vote said ok to subs, but might it make life simpler for you admins to keep things much as they are given that it appears to work (aside from spammer regs) as far I know and make the donations a sort of informal donation with a yearly reminder?

Peter

Well I still think it would be no bad thing to have a annual small membership with access to downloads

This ball would have started regardless of your prompt Peter, the forum has evolved over the past few years and it does need to keep up with the times.

We want to retain all the good bits but place a small amount of control around some aspects to ensure its future and that it remains as open and friendly as possible.  As Admins, we don't want to run a "nanny state" but we do need to keep the rules fair, simple and easy to manage.



Speaking personally now, if I have to spend all of my time simply monitoring and administering rather than actually working on betas, finding parts or helping out at any LBF events it could become a bit of a chore and less fun. So, by putting a few basic rules in place the admin overhead is reduced, then I & the others can spend more time contributing more Beta related assistance or finding alternate parts etc. which, I think is the main purpose of this very forum.

Most of you will know that I am a Gamma man and
haven't had a Beta since about 2002, still I would be
Happy to pay a small subscription to support the
forum.

Geoff

I did not know that!
Your knowledge of Betas has saved my ass on a couple of occasions so make sure to stick with this forum even if you buy a Prius. (Just don't post anything about it) ;D

Make it simple, have all viewers/members pay a fee. new members could have a 30 day trail to see if they think it worth paying for.

This would make it no big deal! after there is much information on forum for all!   I would be happy to pay whatever. I learn much by going from page to page.

Bob Kocher

I met with Tony yesterday to discuss the outline steps given that the majority of voters are happy with a £10 per annum subscription to access the technical section, downloads and for sale section.

Here is what we discussed/agreed:

Subscription will be £10 a year, this equates to £0.83 a month. Or $1.35 USD /  AUD $1.29   / 1.02 Euro (Rates as at today 21/12/2012)

Subscription will not start until July 2013.  This is because we want to avoid extra expense during Christmas/New year period and it gives us 6 months to prepare.  You are not obliged to pay the subscription if you do not want to, its freedom of choice.

There will be a "Free to Collector" section that is available to all subscribed/unsubscribed forum users if there are Beta parts that are being given away.  Adverts for any items being "sold" will be removed by the Admins if posted in the "Free to Collector".

Good result, gets my support
Rodders

by all means take a bit of time to set it up properly but I can't see anyone being so overspent that they can't lash out an extra tenner at Christmas!! Glad to pay the sub whenever you want to start as hopefully it will take some pressure off your backs and fund improvements too.

+1

Any idea when the donate button code will be updated as still cannot get it to work on anything I seem to try?

Peter

Peter,

I think it has more to do on what browser version and which plug-ins you have applied.

Tony and I have tested as many/much as we can but there is no easy way we can test all combinations of OS, browsers and plug ins.

Here's the perspective from a newbie.

Personally I'd be happy to pay a tenner a year to keep a forum going that has lots of advice and tips for owners.

I'm not so sure about restricting large sections for members only though as I think this deters new members.
I find it off putting visiting a forum and not seeing chunks of it. I'd also be wary of paying to support a forum when I was unsure of its contents.

Here's a quick example:
RAOC (Renault Alpine Owners Club) have a forum that anyone can view, except for a members only section (club offers/trips, and things people don't want public). They also restrict posting in the classifieds section to paid up members, non-members can view it though. Allowing non members to view classifieds helps members sell things, cars especially.
Club Alpine Renault has a forum that only members can view/join .... I've never seen the forum and don't know/care if it's worth the subscription fee.
I joined RAOC several years ago after buying a car off the forum, getting advice/parts from them and wanting to support to club ;)

Anyway, wheres the donate button?

Can I pay a fiver as I only half look at most threads.......
 ;~})

Do you go into whsmith and say 'there's nothing about gammas can I have this magazine for free? '

Sent from my MOMO11 bird using Tapatalk 2

Yup.

At the Buggati dealers 'I
never exceed the speed limit can I have a £666,666 discount?'
And in Tesco 'i only use one side of the andrex is it half price?'

Hi All

I trust this is all going to remain light hearted banter......

Peter

Of course! But maybe such jolities should be reserved for facebook ;D

In Tesco I ask them to peel the satsumas,
 coz I don't eat the skin........ ;~})

and I buy a lot of two for one, them return the
the other,one.

Ok you've convinced me, I'll cut down on the gin
and pay the full ten.

I am always browsing online for tips that can facilitate me. Thanks!

Spam?????

I have removed your unrelated link as it is suspect, either its a joke that some of us have missed or you are spamming.  You'll have the benefit of the doubt as its your first post, however if there is more suspected spam from your account then your profile will be blocked.

Hi Matt

Looks like it is time to block.....

Peter

I know Matt's a little busy of late, I have have removed ErattreansasK's account and included him on the ban list ;)

Tony

What do they gain by joining non commercial forums and posting nonsense??

Maybe includes a link to a malicious website?

Peter

That never occurred to me!
I always wondered why people do this crap.

A lot of websites also have member only / restricted areas - on which lots of people post email addresses, mobile phone numbers and other personal info.  Makes it quick and easy to harvest.

Hi I am v v new to the LBF and unsure of how it actually 'ticks' on a month to month basis?
I am a regular 'poster' on the mx3-uk forum and they have a 'donator' system which seems to work fine
around the general premise that if you post on a regular basis, it seems only good manners to 'donate' at an equal rate?
be it via email or paypal etc. Nearing the renewal date of the domain, the admin post a new topic informing members
of the state of play as regards the 'fullness of the pot' it goes without saying it doesnt take long for the pot to be
overflowing in readiness for the forthcoming year! Donators also get a 'green star' added to their profile, emblazened with the word 'Donator'
which can be displayed with a certain amount of warm fuzzyness?  :D
just a thought? kev b.

Hi Matt

July is here and I am not aware of the donate button issue being resolved. Any chance of an update on what you are planning and if I can help.

Peter

Any update on subs?

Hi Matt, Tony et al

Not sure if you were going to follow up on the suggestion/poll from last year about a nominal amount for membership?

I just tried the donate button and it worked! First time I have got it to work for me on any browser, so either you changed the code or Paypal are now playing nicely.

Peter

Hi Pete

Apology's for the late reply, been a little busy setting up Marks new parts site.
Thanks very much for the forum donation, we've made a changes to the paypal plug-in x fingers its all working now.
I need to speak with Matt to see where we are going with the Subscription thing, problem at the moment we all seem to be so busy  ???
Hopefully once the parts site is sorted I'll have a bit of spare time?

Cheers
Tony

Ok, well done. On the subject of Mark's site, I tried to login and buy something yesterday, but kept asking me to login, so unable to checkout and hence buy, is this related to what you are doing?

Peter

Hi Peter
In theory you should still be able to login, the old site is untouched,  I'm building the new on from scratch, then switching  the old one to to maintenance mode, then import the database to the new site(hopefully tomorrow) if you need parts urgently drop Mark an email.
Cheers Tony

Nice theory but he's not always the fastest to reply, I know it's not his main job but even so (4 days and waiting here!)

Sorry, to hijack this thread, but had a mail from Mark today confirming issues with some logins my need is non urgent, so happy to wait until he is ready.

Peter

Where is the link for the subscriptions?

Cannot find it ???

Hi

Along the line which has

Home Help Contact Admin Search ...........

You will find the Donations option, click on that.

There is no specific Subscription option yet.

Peter

Sorted!

Hi All

I thought I would revise this topic as nothing formal has happened on it, and I guess Tony or someone is picking up the tab still for the forum/domain name etc.

If we are not going to formally 'charge' then I would suggest those that can, make a small donation to help towards the forum's costs.

It would be good to know how much it actually costs to host it and other costs associated with it to give us a target to shoot at.

Thanks

Peter

I honestly think it needs some sort  of formal arrangement he last thing we want is the forum imploding due to lack of funds

I think we would have to hear from Mark. As things stand I presume that he writes the cost off as advertising in his accounts, so perhaps it doesn't cost him as much as we think?

There are always loads of 'guests' viewing the Forum, so it probably brings in a fair bit of trade?

I agree, it would be useful to know if the forum is an integral part of the whole Betaboyz sales package or is it separate?

I guess this then opens up the question of ownership and future availability of the forum. I am not questioning any current intentions or asking for any changes, just the experience of the Stratos replica forum which a few years ago lost pretty much all access to many years history and had to start all over again due to the 'owner' of the site deciding not to continue and effective access to the information was removed, with the consequent loss of all the history and useful info contained within it.

I am not suggesting this is in any way the same scenario, just would like to understand how we stand with if something happens to the site owner etc.

Peter

Hi all, Reply explaining all coming soon :D
Tony

Hi all, sorry for the late reply on this, I’m pretty bad at putting pen to paper

When we moved over from the MSN forum in 2009, I set up the new forum being hosted by Zen, and spent many an hour transferring all posts from back to 2002 over to the new forum, not wanting to lose anything.

With annual hosting cost of around £190 per year, within this price we get in package:
5 Data Bases, one we use for the forum, one for the photo gallery and one for Marks parts site, and two spare.

I have also purchased a number of domain names all being forwarded to our forum, a couple of the top of my head are:
Lanciabeta.co.uk  lanciabeta.com betaboyz.co.uk  lanciabetaparts.co.uk

Everything is registered in my name, and is paid annually by me.
Over the years we have tried single line advertising which paid around half the yearly cost, with Mark Wastnidge paying the balance, this only lasted for two years.
Nowadays we rely on your generous forum donations with Mark and myself making up the balance.

Marks parts site is run separately from the forum, and I set it up as a favour to a mate and to also help Beta owners source parts, I have never charged Mark for this and is done a totally voluntary basis, as I do with admin of the forum.

My Beta has now been off the road for 3 years now  :(, and what with work being away for 12 hours a day, and developing my photography business (spending 35 days a year at race tracks) most of my computer time is spent editing photos, or if you've seen my Facebook page you will get the idea  :)
  
I’ve become less active at events and on the forum,  but behind the scenes I’m still busy  keeping forum updated and backed up.

From my point of view the forum is very safe for the future, and I have absolutely no plans to move it on or use it to make money, it’s something I feel very proud to be part of.
If anything was to happy to me, my wife and close family know how much time I have put into the Forum, Matt and John B would be given all relevant information to keep it going  ;)

Where do we go in the future ?
1- I have thought about setting up a Beta Forum Facebook group, but looking at other clubs that have gone down this route, my own opinion is, valuable info could be lost, at least the forum has a search facility, and the pages also come up on a Google search, it would be good to hear other peoples thought on this?

2- I used to attend most events in the year with my Beta, but as mine is off the road I don’t get out as much as I would like, would anyone be interested in a role of Events Coordinator/s, (perhaps for different regions ?) we used to get great turnouts at most events we listed on our calendar.

3-Regarding the funding, it would be great if we could come up with a simple way to admin this, perhaps Mark would pay a set amount per year, then the rest via members/classified adverts??
any thoughts ??

4- Lastly I would like to thank everyone who has made the forum what it is today, no politics, no in house arguing, just a nice place to be   ;) :) ;D  

Thanks
Tony Harrison

Hi Tony

Thanks for the full reply, and for all the unseen work and funding you put in. My two penny worth...

1) personally the format as it stands works really well for me and have no real interest in Facebook. I could be persuaded, but it would take a lot to get me to move to it.

2) I think classified ads funding is probably not going to work as most folk use Ebay anyway and there is likely a significant admin element to it.

3) I think a regular annual contribution would work best, ideally lots of small donation eg £5 to £10 where most folk would not find it too onerous IE a couple of cups to Costa coffee etc.

4) as to events coordinator, I would be interested in helping out once I have retired from my full time job in a couple of years time, but sadly not before, as with you no real time to devote to it at present.

Peter

I agree with Peter, with the number of new members we seem to attract ( we now have over 1000 although clearly not all current/active) we should be able to get somewhere with a modest annual fee, perhaps with some sort of incentive for newbies- say free for 10 posts, £10 if you want to carry on?

Just my ramblings.

Mark

I have to say that this site is an absolute treasure trove of Beta-related information and one that all who administer it can be justly proud of. It's a model for how a special interest site can be run and managed. If people are happy to continue with donations then that's fine, but I can't see how anyone could baulk at a modest yearly subscription fee.

With regard to Facebook, I've seen how FB tends to dilute the information that is at the heart of a site like this, and how difficult it is to retrieve old information from FB. It simply isn't designed for that. It's great for organising meets (but then so is this site), but I don't think any benefit would be gained from a FB page. Just my thoughts...

Guys, i very much appreciate this forum, although my visits here are only just above those of Lord Lucan!
Face book isnt my thing and i dont see it as an improvement, but then i am a Philistine!
I have not yet made any contribution to the running of this site, sorry to say. Is there a Paypal option Tony?
I dont object to an annual membership cost, indeed i think it would be the thing to do.
Im sure that we all want this site to grow and improve. I plan to have my cars for a while yet!
 

Hi Harpo

You can make a donation by selecting the 'donation' option which is along the line starting with 'home' which is just below the main picture at the top of any page. Then select what you wish to pay etc.

Any problems, please message me.

Peter

Hi All

Just a gentle reminder that the forum costs real money to keep going and whilst Mark and Tony end up paying the bulk of the costs, any donations are always useful to keep it open to everyone without an up front charge..........

You can donate here (any amount you wish)

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=treasury (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=treasury)

Thanks

Peter

Hi All

Sadly it is that time of year again!!

So if you still have some money after the Xmas spend, a contribution would be useful. Perhaps Tony could give us a rough outline as to the current costs and the state of the funds so we can get a feel for where our contributions go?

Thanks

Peter

Why does it have to be PayPal ?   I would contribute  but do not use PayPal and do not intend to register  with them.

Hi

I am sure it does not need to be, as Tony handles the funds etc, perhaps he could suggest alternatives?

Peter

Evening all
Here's a quick forum costings update.

well its good news again, for the second year running, with your very generous donations, and a couple of Lancaster Insurance commission payments
we have covered this years hosting costs, with enough left to cover 2018, or cover costs for other things to help the forum.

I have attached a copy of our paypal statement and the invoice for hosting and domain name(with personal information removed) from 1st Jan 2016 to now.

the cost to run the forum for Oct 2016-Oct 2017:
1 years hosting with Zen Internet    £172.66
Domain Betaboyz.co.uk 1 year        £8.39
Total cost for Oct 2016-Oct 2017     £181.05

We also own a couple of other domain names, lanciabeta.co.uk lanciabeta.com and a few others, but as these come out later in the year I pay for these as they are not expensive.

as you can see from the paypal attachment, our current balance is £185.13
and the only withdrawal is to cover the forum hosting £181.05

All other costs including, NEC Classic Car show, hotels etc. are paid out of our own pockets.

The reason we use Paypal is most people have a account, and it's good to have all transactions in one place.
Anyone wishing to donate by other means, is also very welcome, please contact me via private message, or ask a friend with a paypal account, anyone can make a donation.  

Thanks again for everyone's continued support, this is our 15th year, and look forward to many more years  :D

Regards
Tony and all the Beta Forum Team

I don't currently, and never will, use mainstream social media so name your price to keep this site operating
There is/was a paypal option IIRC and I'm off in search of it now.

The link is at the top of the Home  page under the banner and to the right of the options list and is labelled "Donations" which gives easy and fast access the donations page and links to PayPal
Here's the direct link if you prefer:
 http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=treasury (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=treasury)
I hope I'm right as I'm a bit of a Troglodyte and apologies if I've sent you somewhere else.