Lancia Beta Forum

took my beta for its first MOT since the late 80's, fingers crossed, my main concern are the brakes, despite new discs/pads/seals all round they dont seem that great. i am used to a modern car so maybe thats why they dont seem to good, prehaps they will get better with use as the car has still only done about 30 miles since i have rebuilt the brakes.
if it passes i shall treat it to a tax disc...the last time it was taxed was 1988

bloke at the MOT station was very impressed with it, although he did think it was a fulvia

blimey...its passed with no problems....tax disc tomorrow

Raz

Congratulations! Get out there and bed the brake pads in and all will be great (assuming the disc surface is clean flat and smooth). Well maintained Beta brakes with a good choice of pad are surprisingly good.

Cheers

Eric

all sorted, now taxed and moted, done about 100 miles so far, no problems, brake seem much better,spent a few hours sorrting out the wipers, they now park all right and even the intermitant works, fuel guage stopped working for a while but now working again, i am going to try some super unleaded to see if it runs any better on it, i just remembered i never changed the gear box oil, i recon its the original stuff in there from when it was new, what is the best stuff to use?
all in i recons it owes me about £700 which is pretty amazing when you see the price of some of the cars on ebay, the plan is just to drive it about and enjoy for a few years and then give it a total rebuilt/respray.
Many thanks to the advice from everyone on the board.

Be careful with gear  oil tutela zc90 was the original spec this was, from memory, a GL3 that's without ep additives you must use an oil of this type as other types can attack the synchros I believe that iveco dealers might still sell zc90 but I haven't confirmed this or if the spec its still the same

Raz

Well done! The OE spec Gear Oil is ZC90 and you will need about 1.8 litres  http://www.ricambio.co.uk/453-gearbox-oil-zc90-1ltr-80w-90-. Some modern 75w-90 oils have EP chemistry that will attack the brass syncros in the gearbox. However you can use Redline 75w 90NS for better hot and cold shifts as I do in my Montecarlo http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1017-red-line-synthetic-gear-oil-75w-90ns-gl5-non-limited-slip.aspx (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1017-red-line-synthetic-gear-oil-75w-90ns-gl5-non-limited-slip.aspx)
2 Quarts is just enough.

If in doubt use the ZC90 for 6 months and drain it hot then use the Redline as this will shift the chocolate sludge that sits in these boxes with old oil in situ.
 
Eric

Hi Eric et al

Originally when I bought various bits for the engine of my car, I bought some Castrol Syntrax Universal 75w-90 semi-synthetic for the gearbox as (if I remember) recommended either by Castrol or Opie. This was before I discovered this forum. The question is, any reason not to use it?

Thanks

Peter

if it is a GL4 or GL5 spec it could be risky the cause of bad gearchanges is Betas is often incorrect oil choice. Probably best to contact Castrol and explain that the recommended oil for your car was originally a GL3 multigrade and that EP additives are known to attack the synchro rings ask for their advice if this oil is suitable. Contemporary to the car, aside from the fiat lubricants ZC90, if you wanted to use another brand most recommended engine oil thereby avoiding the issue of EP additives. I was told years ago that this was ill advisable as the additives/modifiers at the time couldn't withstand the constant pressures of the gears however fully synthetic engine oils could be used successfully but I've never tried it. Mobil recommended Mobil 1 racing as suitable and at the time I think it was a 15w50 spec, the viscosities of engine and gear oil are expressed differently by the way. This is what I recall hopefully someone will come along to clarify with more certainty

Hi

Just revisted the Castrol site and only a couple of Betas mentioned, HPE ie and Volumex. The 70-90 as mentioned above is now called just Universal and is the recommended for these cars, am I safe in assuming that the later cars had the same gearbox composition/oil requirement to the earlier boxes?

(Sorry if I appear to be hijacking this thread, happy to start another one if needed)

Peter
 

yes same oil in all boxes, I would still e mail castrol the viscosity of this oil looks fine but I believe it is a GL4? It could well be that modern additives do not attack the synchros so it could be fine but I'd clarify first.

Will do, also read a review for an old Escort gearbox where they recommended this oil for an old box and I think it mentioned that it was safe with their synchros. I will post when I hear anything.

Peter

Could not send a mail to Castrol as their 'contact' page is down, but managed to send one to the 'Classic Oils' company, who are a different company from what I can see, so may not be in a position to recommend the one I bought, but here is their reply

"Good Morning,

Our records show that GP50 (or ST90) both non EP products should be used in
Beta's up to 1982."

Castrol list the HPE ie and VX gearbox oil as the Universal as mentioned above, which all makes me question if the ie and VX had different gearboxes, ie used different materials, hence a different oil?

Anyone have an idea on this?

Peter

No same boxes and I believe the same issues with gear oil are also relevant to more modern cars such as delta and prisma, those non EP grades aren't right either as they are mono grade. When I'm at home I will try to confirm further from available tech data. The oil you have is nearer the correct grade but you need to confirm the EP additive issue I suppose it is possible that this is a modern blend meeting GL4 whilst not containing additives corrosive to the synchro rings 

it would be good to have a list of oils that will do the job, seems a bit dodgy with all the adatives used. you mite think your doin some good changing oil when actually you mite be doin more harm.

simplest solution is use ZC90 it is apparently still available

i went for the st90 as it was fairly cheap off ebay, is shall let you all know how it goes.
i have now done about 200 miles and all is well, indicators stopped working but mended themselves, i dont bother turning on the radio as i like to hear the engine.
the brakes have bedded in nicely now, one thing which did shock me was how good the headlights were, much better than i thought they would be, its a pitty the instrument lights are crap.
my kids cant believe they actually made cars with out air con and electric windows.

Dear Paul,
if you want you can replace the binnacle bulbs with ones that are twice as bright. I think the standard is 1.6W. We have put 3W replacement straight in and we can now see the oil gauges at night,
which is nice.

best,
Chas. :)

just to prove to you all...here it is complete with tax disc

nice ;D a lot of car for the money.

Hi

Yep, nice looking car, hope you get chance to use it regularly.

A little twist with the gearbox oil question over the Castrol Universal, I came across this article which specifically talks about synchromesh issues being the reason to use it, is this the same issue mentioned before on the Beta box?

https://sites.google.com/site/morganatica/04-transmission/ford-type-9-gearbox

Peter

Peter

This is the issue i.e. the Sulphur content in EP5 Gear Oils attacking the Brass (in our boxes) Synchronizers. I worked for an oil company in automotive lubricants and have also stripped 20+ Beta/Monte gearboxes over the years and I have seen this sort of damage. Usually from a 75w-90 EP5 gear oil being used to improve cold shifting. I have seen a lot more damage from old oil though!

No doubt about it a good quality typically synthetic 75w 90 dramatically improves cold shifting assuming the Beta linkage is not the pile of wrecked pivots and sloppy cross links often found. So the trick is to use an oil resistant to degrading and carbonizing that gives great bearing/gear protection and likes brass. You need to read the technical spec sheet if in doubt.

Most old Beta boxes need 2 hot gear oil changes to give their best as there is nearly always a layer of chocolate brown/black carbonated oil and swarf in the bottom of the boxes from neglected oil changes and this leaves best when hot and mixed. The second change picks up the residual filth and removes it.

I have re-built more than 5 of these boxes in the last couple of years and we definitely need to get high quality clean oil in there or irreversible damage is done. I use Redline 75w 90 NS in my Montecarlo Gear Box and I have a slick change hot or cold far better than the factory change and the box is handling 190 BHP. This oil is also used by Geoff Ward in his racing Montecarlo. ZC90 (80w90 EP4) is meant to be changed every 2 years or it degrades i.e. losses the ability to be thin when cold (80w) and thick when hot (90). This makes cold shifts worse and reduces protection when hot.

Eric
Modified Monte & Beta FI Volumetrico project             

Hi guys, what about the castrol syntrans transaxle 75w-90?
I am about to use it in my reborning beta. The gearbox used to be filled by the previous owner with reddish oil that seemed to be a synthetic type.
regards

Ok

I have had a look at the Datasheet and whilst not very detailed this should be fine as it is a API GL4 product not GL5 i.e. low Suplhur content.

Eric

As far as I know it has no EP additives and can be used as an alternative to GL3 oils and is marked as GL-4+.