Lancia Beta Forum

I have my mind set on mating a 4 litre engine/box/front and rear subframes from this XJS.........

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/2.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/3.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/4.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/5.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/jag/6.jpg)

In to this Beta Coupe............

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/Lancia/1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/Lancia/2.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/Lancia/3.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/Lancia/4.jpg)

Space-Framed, Polly windows, etc....

Going to be a good project if I do say so myself.....Lots of fabrication and welding to be done, I've had a quick comparison with the tape measure and it's do-able....albeit a tight squeeze here and there, with a load of custom parts needed...

Will be a crazy machine when it's done!

Will update here along the way, just moving in to new workshop this week so should be starting soon!!!!

Dan

*edit* trailer pic, long journey to collect it but well worth the effort.
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/trailer1.jpg)

I say do-able....I need to find 5 inches more width at the rear!!!!  hehehehehehe Going to try and do it without a bodykit too.....might be a squeeze.

Anyone after mechanical parts I will have a post up soon in the for sale section listing all the running gear and spares I no longer need for this project.  Just got to hit 30 posts ;)

Thats some project - I will watch with interest as you make progress.

I'm sure if you bring it to one of the Lancia trackdays at Goodwood you'll have a few folks who'd be up for a ride round in that monster ;D

Quick update,

Engine and front sub-frame removed.  Noticed it's had a whack to the Fr/Rh side as chassis leg is a little kinked....not too much of a problem though as it'll be space framed by the time I'm finished....would have been awkward if I was staying std.  More annoyed I didnt spot it when buying tbh (not that it'd have stopped me).

More head scratching and tape measuring has shown me that the Jag sill-to-sill width is very close to the Betas....so the front floor/tunnel & bulkhead/front chassis legs swap from the jag might be my best option.

I picked up a 4 litre Jag engine to replace the 3.6 I was going to go with originally, as the 4 litre has coil-on-plug, knock sensors etc... plus a forged crank so lots more revs are possible.  Just in the process of removing the excess ancillaries & any weight I can then my attention is going to be on fabrication of the rollcage/spaceframe.....I've kind of pushed my other project (G-wagon Merc 4x4) to the side as I'm super excited about this one!!!! The merc can wait, I know it wont give me as much fun as this will.

I might cringe when I re-read this but I hope it's done for next Summertime :D 

Bye for now.

Dan

Discussion about arches (Grp 3) thread....just for reference.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1696.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1696.0)

Cheers
Dan

Stripped almost bare  :D

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/a1.JPG)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/a2.JPG)

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/a3.JPG)
Tack welded sunroof in place, fibreglassed & rough filled the rest of the gap after aligning the roof a little better (It's been trampled on by vandals  >:( in the past), filled a few low spots at the rear of the skin, lots more prep to do though before it's straight :-\ ... waiting on block sanders & fibreglass supplies I've ordered to arrive before I can make any more progress on the roofskin mould.

All stripped parts available in my sale thread....
http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1711.msg9691#new (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1711.msg9691#new)

Dan

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/roof1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/roof2.jpg)

Starting to get tedious now.... another layer of filler went on last night, guess what my weekend consists of!

*EDIT*
More layers, more sanding, more layers, more sanding...you get the drift....
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/a4.JPG)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/a5.JPG)

*edit*
Fibreglass mould making materials are here! CDS tubing for cage arriving next week....all systems go!

Not spent as much time in the unit as I should have over the extended break but some progress to report on the roof.....I think I underestimated the job of blocking the old roof out, it was in much worse state than I thought once the sanding commenced  :-[

Out of the bondo stage now, on to the filler-primer stage...taking some time to finish it off nicely but it has to be perfect!!  The darker areas you see are guide coat...It's a case of block sand the high spots off, fill the lower areas a bit at a time to get a nice smooth roof....that's the theory anyhow  :-\
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/roof.jpg)

Also had an urge to remove the boot lock, glassing up the hole and prepping the boot skin for a f/glass mold (idle hands whilst roof was drying)... would be nice to have the top half of the car I.e. Bonnet, roof and boot all made from composite!  Reduced C.O.Gravity and weight saving  8)  I think I may need a bulge in the bonnet anyhow so 2 birds with one stone LOL

Other points to note, 4 litre engine dismantled...bit of wear on timing chain tensioner and its a bugger to replace but hey ho, got to be done!   Cams are out and going to Piper Cams to be re-profiled to a hotter spec.

Great project Dan, will be following with great interest. :)
I might be interested in a fibreglass bonnet if you accidentally make two ;)
Cheers, Marcus.

Hehehehe I think I might make a few of each  ;)

Got some sparks flying today whilst waiting for yet another coat of filler primer to dry..... chopped out the front chassis legs and lower x member...Just left the section the wing bolts on to for reference when fabricating it all back up....The RH chassis leg was a mess so next step at the front is to fit the RH wing/bonnet and make sure it all lines up properly before fabrication can start.

Engine bay looks properly empty now  :D
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/shell.jpg)

Picking these up Sunday too....Genuine M5 BMW split rims, 18x8 front and 18x10 rears  8) 8) 8)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/wheels1.JPG)

Once the wheels are here I can mock up the front and rear axles  ;D ;D

Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan

Not wanting to appear too dim, but what parts of roof/a/b posts are you looking to replace with composite and are you then expecting a cage to replace the rigidity of the roof etc?

BTW you can get off the shelf composite wings for the coupe, though I guess that may not be of interest as you are widening the track somewhat....

Peter

Thanks for the info Re: wings...do you know where from at all? it might be worth me just grafting an arch to an existing composite wing instead of making a steel version as a buck for a mould.

Regarding the roof I intend to cut a large square section from the top/flat bit of the roof, leaving the framework along the top of the a/b/c pillars and across the top of the screen(s).....I then intend to use a bead roller tool to put a 'lip' into the old skin remnants to sit the new panel in to.  Bond it in place and bond it to the roof diagonals of the cage....
Doing things this way kills lots of birds with one stone from my perspective as (A) it has a sunroof which I don't want (B) The roof had been vandalized/trampled on prior to me owning it so has about 4kg of filler on it to get it straight (C) allows proper welding to the top sections of the cage where pieces meet the Main hoop, which follows the B pillar profile (D) Reduces C.O.Gravity

If the roof wasn't already shot when I got it I'd have probably just welded up the sunroof and filled it over, but that was not an option for me unfortunately.

The reason this has been attacked relatively early on is that the main hoop I am going to have made needs to fit nice to a non-sunroof skin (i.e minus the sunroof framework/slider section) so once that's done I can start removing structural parts at the rear of the car for the axle fitment...keeping the body straight and doors fitting means I have to follow this process.

Make sense?
Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan

Yes, makes perfect sense now, thanks.

I will ask my bodywork guy where he bought them from as he put them onto my Spider and they fit pretty well.

Peter

What was wrong with the engine in the Beta? Is it a 1600 and do you still have it? Will pay good money for it if it's running

Alex

Alex

I know he does not because I know it is already fitted in a Beta Spyder.

Sorry

Eric

Beat me to it  :D

Little bit of progress to report....

Panel beating hammers and dollies came through the post so I had a quick bash at making a plug to fit the old fuel filler location in the wing, not the prettiest but it's not bad for a 1st try at beating sheet.  It's nice and thick along the rim to weld too but single thickness in the middle....got to drag the welder over from my other unit and make some sparks soon  ;D
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b2.jpg)

Fetched these BMW M5 18 inch x8 fronts x10 rears Sunday, Need a damn good refurb but a steal at £350 IMO, genuine BBS Split rims  8)
I just had to poke one behind the arch to see what they looked like....any opinions?  Bear in mind they'll be about 6 inches wider with a custom arch extension when I'm done...
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b3.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b4.jpg)

And finally getting there with the roof, figured out a trick of using knifing putty and a steel ruler to level off a section that's been plaguing me.... I also used some el cheapo aerosol as a guide coat which reacted with the filler primer at the rear of the roof and on the boot a bit, had to dig this out and put some more filler on there....  Boot lock gone and filled over  :)  Bootlid needs a quick sand and its ready for making a F/glass mould from.  Bit more work on the roof, couple days more prep and a few more coats of filler primer I think.
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b5.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/b6.jpg)

Coming along nicely. Not had much time lately to get on it...I'm moving house Sunday too so it's going to be slow for a few weeks I think   :-[ :-[

Cheers
Dan

The wheels look surprisingly good. Apart from the blue & white bit in the middle - that's got to go!

Hahahaha Yeah will be getting rid of that....they're bbs to me not bmw parts....just so happen to have been fitted standard to bmw....some center caps will be sorted when they're refurbished.

Dan

Bead Roller turned up today, going to be essential to make all of the new panels required...very happy chappy when this turned up!
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/roller.JPG)

Also started waxing (Carnuba) the roof and the bootlid which are now (I'm VERY relieved to say) straight enough to take a mould from!!!!  :) :)

So that's what's next on the list....some more wax, pva spray and then its fibreglass time  ;D

Oh yeah and move house  :-\

Dan

Time to introduce the engine I think, been scratching my head over this for some time....it appears to have all of the hallmarks of a superbly designed engine, some drawbacks but none that I can't overcome with a bit of effort.

Anyhow I'll do a detailed engine build post once it's all together and been dyno'd...still some way to go yet before then but making progress none the less....

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/cams.jpg)
These cams are off to piper Monday morning for a re-grind to race spec.

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/eng1.jpg)
Here's the block in all its glory, 6 cylinder monster, all alloy with cast steel liners....pretty long hence the engine crane supporting the engine stand  :-[ 
Oh yeah, steel crank for revs and more revs....

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/eng2.jpg)
Some happy snappy head bolts, common thing on this engine as these two bolts run through a coolant channel making them brittle.... wish I'd have known that beforehand, I would have ground off the heads of the bolts and removed the cylinder head, giving wd40 access and tinkering time....Oh well you learn by your mistakes....drill out and screw extractor it is now on these pair  :'(

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/eng4.jpg)
Cylinder head, bit weird compared to most, head bolts pass through cam caps so taking hte head off is pretty easy, solid lifters and the next picture shows better the inlet ports which are of excellent geometry...I've seen opinions over the net that the head is one of the best of its era....inspiring the widely acclaimed duratec modern engine which is similar in port design...but that's all internet opinion, the proof will be on the dyno!!!!  ;D ;D

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/eng3.jpg)
Nice port design, just going to fettle the flash lines off and smooth it out a bit and it's job done porting wise...wish all builds were that simple!!
Weber 45dcoes to be mated up to inlet on a custom manifold, custom stainless headers going to be made once it's mounted in car....cannot wait to hear the bark it's going to make!!!!!

Well there's the engine...it's a hybrid of an Aj6 and an AJ16 taking the best bits from both...more details in build write up at a later date!

The main head scratching I'm doing is over the choice of rods and pistons.....do I go the whole hog and get H section rods and Forged pistons or test the durability of the standard items bearing in mind As long as the cams don't snap....an engine failure would cost me £200 and some time to fix....regardless of damage caused  :-\ it's a hard one I have to admit....

Dan

Hi Dan

Back in the UK now, will sort out where the wings came from and the pic of the wing mirror.

Peter

Is that the Project Manager in the top picture?

Cheers Peter  ;D

Matt, No he's the quality inspector!!! Sticking his nose in and sniffing everything I do!!!

Only had an hour tonight so had a tidy around  :-\ Man the workshop was a tip.

Dan

Finally managed to squeeze in some time on the roof and bootlid mouldings....they're coming on nicely :D

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/gel1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/gel2.jpg)

Pictures are of the gelcoat (clear), this was brush applied over a pva film that I sprayed over the part surface after muchos waxing!  So.... WAX>PVA>GEL>RESIN

As it stands the bootlid has had the first layer of glass sheeting over the gelcoat and will be ready for another tomorrow when I get chance to hit the roofskin mould with some glass/resin too....
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/gel3.jpg)

More pics to come, wish me luck!  Hell of a task for a beginner in fibreglass  :-[  Only problem so far is not realizing you have to be super quick with the resin mixes, around 10 mins and its like jelly...one batch binned and lesson learnt!

Cheers
Dan

Been following your build and I must say I'm amazed at the dedication and skill, not to mention the imagination shown throughout.
One thing that may be of interest to you if there is room, is that Webcon, I think, offers a triple Weber/manifold complete kit for the 6 cyl. Jag engine.
Maybe not to your spec, but it's available and might save you some work.
Anyway, keep up the good work and don't let moving house distract you from the important things in life.
Oh yeah, the wheels are beautiful!

Hi Dan

Finally got around to asking the bodywork guy about the fibreglass wings and he bought them from Smith & Deakin (http://www.smithanddeakin.co.uk/L-S.htm (http://www.smithanddeakin.co.uk/L-S.htm)). They are £90 each. These fit the Coupe, but have to be modified for the Spider.

All the best

Peter

Thanks for the compliments droptop :D

Regarding the Webcon tripple webber setup....This (unfortunately) is for the earlier style of Jag 6 cylinder engines used in the E-Type and similar.  They're not interchangeable manifold wise :(  Also the inlet and exhaust sides are opposite between the two engine types.
Nobody seems to do a manifold for the aj16 engine, I have a cnc machine I made a few years ago that'll cut the manifold patterns out no problem so it's no big deal  ;)

Ohhh very good, thanks for the info, will probably go for a set of these as it'll save me some time :D

Cheers
Dan

Heater matrix IS a big job!!!
I hate everything dash related, too cramped and hidden fixings everywhere! No thanks!

Glad someone agrees with me on that! Would be more serious if the car were a hard top as there is plenty of "ventillation" available to keep the front screen from fogging up in the spyder. Gets cold as a witche's unmentionables on early morning/late evening drives though.
Maybe THIS winter? Mind you, I said that last summer as well.

To be fair there are cars where it's much harder than in the spider.

Steering wheel off
Instrument panel out
Centre swicth panel off
Prise out rthe outer vents
5 bolts - dash out

2 Hours max (including photos and labelling wires) to get tho this point then the matrix is simple enough to change. I'd do the heater valve at the same time and the hoses.

If you want a real challenge try the clutch master cylinder on an Integrale - it lives under the dash above the pedal !

Got cracking with finishing the bootskin mould with a helping hand from the missus tonight.... used some old cardboard tubes cut up to give it some stability and something to sit on when turned over producing parts.

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/bootlid1.jpg)

Next job....tackle the roofskin mould...the one I'm apprehensive over, the bootlid was practice   :)

Droptop, whats the problem with your heater matrix?  Have you tried the products to unclog it? jet washer wedged in the hose end sometimes works on blocked ones, if you alternate the flow from the jetwash in the heater matrix pipes sometimes it dislodges the crud they block up with.

Cheers
Dan

Thanks for the advice on the heater replacement. It makes sense to change everything in there while I'm at it. Still dread it for some reason.
I changed the sump gasket with the engine in place and didn't mind that at all. It's just one of those things that has grown out of proportion due to its on-going nature.
Dan, the matrix isn't clogged-it's leaking so the heater hoses under the bonnet were cut and joined witn the barrell of an old mini Maglight and two hose clips so changing it is my only option but thanks for the advice on flushing it.
Sorry for sort of hijacking your thread by the way.
I won't get off topic hee again I hopr!

Bit more done on the roof, mould now complete, just needs trimming and peeling off :/

Used a fair bit more resin than I anticipated so will have to wait for some more to arrive before I can start to make up some parts from the moulds.

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/roofm.jpg)

Been side-tracked by another project I need to get finished asap (CNC machine enclosure), made the decision to sell the G-wagon to release the funds I want to spend on this build, so progress may slow a little whilst I finish off the G-wagon Paintjob and repair the grot/mot it and such....

Stay tuned. :D

Dan

Few more pics of progress, forgive me the constant updates it's just nice to have a place to document a build and this one has found a home here  ;D

Ok, so pics of roofskin mould, trimmed the edges along the seams and across the A/C pillars...took some prying off but it came good in the end and to say im pleased with the results would be an understantement.
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/skin1.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/skin2.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/skin3.jpg)

Took the skin off of the bootlid also last night, the framework underneath is very light as it is, so a few holes drilled around the excess metal and that's the main boot bits are sorted.  Bit opf corrosion to bottom LH corner that'd been bodged before to fix but overall pretty good condition which I wasnt expecting.
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/bootframe.jpg)

Peace,
Dan

Admiring the progress Dan!!  You definately are a busy bee  ;D

I just like to maintain momentum Matt, I know how easy it is to drift into a 3-4 year project from even a simple rebuild so got to keep it up on this one if it's going to be ready for next years nice weather!!

I work with kids so sometimes (a lot more recently) I've been giving them lessons on car things in my unit and getting some of my stuff done in works time ;) with helping hands. My boss (mother) doesn't mind as it's family business and my unit is on site & the kids love it!!! Free help woooooopeee :)

Dan

Some more progress made today, didnt have long on it but completed a few things so I'm happy....

Peppered the boot framework on the pillar drill!!!! hehehehe
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/1a.jpg)

Ground out the inside section of the fuel filler on the wing, then tack welded the piece I made prior in place, after my recent sucesses with fibreglassing I am tempted to make rear quarters too...so I didnt fully weld it just yet  ;)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/2a.jpg)
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/3a.jpg)

If anyone needs the bit I cut out of the fuel filler area shout up, its going in the scrap bin after a week if not!

Peace
Dan

Hi Dan,

I may be able to make use of the bit you cut off. If you still have it let me know

Thanks
Simon

Pm me your address and I'll get it sent off :)

EDIT: Managed to teach a kid a little bit of welding yesterday, not the prettiest but it cleaned up ok and will be covered in filler soon!
(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/filler.jpg)

Unfortunately the lancia has been packed up and put int he corner of the shop whilst I get to work finishing the G-wagon paintjob off....got to be done to release funds :(

Peace
Dan

Hi guys, quick update....
G-wagon nearly finished. Probably another month it'll be complete... Not bad timescale for a full resto!!!
Also been giving my cousin some workshop space for his camper van which has slowed progress somewhat.
However.... I've been busy dismantling engines (yes plural :S) and have decided on my spec now...engine builders I've spoken too think that a mighty torque engine is not too distant a possibility with a pair of gt30 turbos :0 so I've been busy planning the engine build. Found a supercharged aj16 with 8.5:1 compression ratio which more suits the build than the high comp version I had previosly as the combustion chamber makes up for the lower cr.  
Also been busy getting front brake components sorted. Managed to get some lovely Mitsubishi gto 4 pot alloy calipers from junk yard for £10!!!! So brackets etc... Being made for the jag hub, misty caliper and BMW wheel..... Mongrel springs to mind lol

Oh also got a replacement screen sorted which is a relief!!!!

Also been researching more about the gearbox, I've found lots of people run 800+ bhp through them so it should survive my lead foot!!!

Probs added lots of build time going turbo bs normally aspirated but turbo big power engineering is my skill-set so I feel quite optimistic of making this build a fire breather relatively cheaply!!

Catch you all soon when I have some pics to show.

Peace
Dan

Been collecting/hoarding/slyly working on the Lancia a bit over the last few months.....So here's an update on what I've been doing  ;D

I've ripped apart the Jag for the subframes, gearbox, prop, tunnel and steering column which gives me enough parts from the jag for me to continue it's V5 Id over to the Lancia...unfortunately all thats going to be left of the lancia is a bodyshell and after consulting the DVLA it'd probably end up on a Q plate if I kept the Lancia V5.....which I don't want!

Ok so here goes....

HX52 Turbo (Big Boy!!!) has arrived, needs rebuilding but will be good for 900+bhp with the Jag lump, came off of a D12D Volvo 12 litre diesel Big Rig so can take some hammer!!!! 

Jaguar Plenumb chamber being modified to fit trumpets, increase its volume and fit a larger throttle body.

The junkyard engine I got (3.6) with the car had been rebuilt which was a suprise, it'd had head gasket failure but other than that the bearing and chain guides are very good condition...these can be re-used on my turbo engine which saves me literally hundreds not having to buy new jag parts...Bonus!

The Cylinder head is due to have the valves de-shrouded and a mild port/polish...I'll do this myself with the old ball-bearing and engineers blue trick  ;) plus many hours with a die grinder  :-[  either way I've done the maths and the head is good for what the turbo is...so I dont need to go mad, just a tidy up will suffice.

Cams are to go to piper for re-grind then custom shims need making for the head, this should give me some rather wild cams and hopefully achieve the numbers I'm anticipating.


I'm just working on stripping down a scrap engine and building it as a dummy block for subframe mock-up then it's time to get the shell rolling  ;D ;D ;D  I can't wait....it's been too long! 

Here's a tasty pic of my newly acquired turbo for this build....sat next to a T3 turbo it looks frigging HUGE! I love it!

(http://www.topmodz.co.uk/lancia/HX52.JPG)

Peace
Dan

I'm not sure if this is genius or insanity. Either way I love it.

I presume with that dinky little turbo driveability isn't right at the top of the list of requirements  ;)  Just be carefull to put a decent filter on the intake to stop foreign matter being sucked into it....such as dogs and small children.

That is MASSIVE, I cant wait to see the finished project ;D

Stuart, don't get me wrong it'll still be very drivable, the engine I'm using has 245bhp and 300lb/ft torque OFF BOOST! so it won't be slouchy!

It'll have a huge wastegate too and the boost is mappable in the ecu I'm using, so it won't be a lot of tyre smoking then change gear...it'll be mainly useable power. It's going to have some sort of traction control built into the ecu too so should (fingers crossed) drive real nice!

Looking to mount subframes tomorrow so stay tuned :)

Peace
Dan