Lancia Beta Forum

Hi all,

Are windscreens readily available or will the nice bloke from the tv advert suck air through his teeth when I ring him...?
Does anyone know the original tint on a VX HPE? Mine appears to have a two tone top tint too.

Cheers,
Andrew.

Just answering my own query here but actually they had the screen details on their computer and have assured me it should be a bronze tint when it arrives. After checking mine it would appear bronze is correct as the side windows seem to be bronze too.
Hopefully that's what they'll turn up with.
And hopefully they won't bend my trims when they remove them... >:(

Andrew.

are you sure i thought only vx coupés had 'bronzo'

I actually thought it was only the VX coupes with the bronze tint too but after checking mine it definitely is bronze... then again I thought all VX cars had a screen fitted in by a rubber but mine is bonded in... I reckon they just fitted whatever they had lying around at the factory half the time... :D

Andrew.

I think you will find only coupés had the rubber screen surround on HPE the screen was retained as a structrual bonded in part of the bodyshell to retain rigidity due to the hatchback style shell. I am really surprised that you have bronze windows do they actually say 'bronzo' in the printed info that's on them in one corner? If they are bronze do I take it that the zone tint at the top of the windscreen is brown?

I have two coupes and both have bonded windscreens.

I understood it to be only the late cars that had rubber sealed screens.

only s2FL2 coupes had rubber as far as I know

My '83 HPE VX has a green tint screen and windows and is fitted by rubber seal, I thought as has been posted earlier all VX HPE's had green tinted glass and VX coupes had bronze, but knowing Lancia and Beta's in particular anything could happen!

clearly I'm wrong about HPE then they must have changed to rubber as well, I suppose it is possible that some markets got bronze tint on HPE as well and that an odd car slipped through with it to the UK but I can't say that I've heard of it before I need to check the microfiche tonight!!

Mine is bronze all round the car for sure (except the tailgate but I know from the restoration details that it is from another car). It doesn't actually say "bronzo" anywhere on them but there is a letter "b"... The top tint is two-tone; briefly green then brown to the top. Is my car unique? A freak?  ;D :o

What I also know now is that the windscreen company were bringing a green screen to fit on friday... I've told them I'd rather have the bronze as original so they're trying to find one right now. Anyone have a source for a new Bronze tint bonded screen...?

Andrew.

I suspect it is a different bronze to the VX coupe colour the vx glass is a very distinct brown and no band tint on windscreen I'm pretty sure from memory that the glass is marked 'bronzo' as well. I think I read somewhere that they no longer make that colour for car windscreens(??)

I think that some Delta turbo had the same colour glass as the VX coupe I can only assume that bronze was considered premium sports style but god knows why??

I will check the microfiche tonight and report back on what it says about both glass colour and rubber seals

well that has got me more confused! Firstly with regard to rubber surround the S2 FL2 fiche only seems to show one option which is what appears to be a rubber seal on both coupé and HPE, with regard to glass, specifically windscreen, for the coupé  there is a specific part number for the volumex glass (against annotation 0930 which means volumex in parts department speak)but for HPE there isn't and the fiche doesn't specify colour of tint. There seemed to be plain glass available on both coupe and HPE with an athermic (tinted) option plus the different glass on vx coupé, in January 1984 the plain option was deleted and the tinted option seems to change part number. Strangely though looking at other glass the HPE volumex has a different part number for the tailgate glass to other versions but it can't be a different colour so why? Must add that this is off the top of my head having had a look at the fiche in my garage (computer isn't near fiche reader unfortunately) so excuse any possible errors also I don't find the fiche as clear as the old style paper parts catalogues and my brain can get muddled up. Oh and while I recall I couldn't find any reference to side stripes as per another thread so I still suspect the volumex side stripes were originated in the UK and were packaged up by Lancar as official accessories

i hope the TV guys come up with the right goods Spud.  otherwise speak to ricky evans motorsport who may be able to help.

mines an early bonded type , i think later cars are rubber

G

Thanks for that.


Mine's on a 'C' plate- about as late as you'll see... and it's bonded... I really do think it was random at the factory! :o
The windscreen guys are due to turn up within the next couple of hours- the guy on the phone wasn't certain what they were bringing but probably a green one. I told him mine was bronze, with a two tone dark bronze/brown and green top tint. He said he'd never come across anything like that on any car... Bloody typical. Why is it always me that owns the "phhhhhh... never seen one like that before mate..." car? :(

Andrew.

sounds like it's probably built after the 01/1984 revision shown on the microfiche assuming it's original does your glass have a '4' date code by any chance? I suspect most vx in the UK were built in mid to late 1983 so could be that yours is very late I don't know when they stopped making coupés and HPEs but it must have been sometime in 1984(??)

my bad memory also tells me that the bonded screen is bigger (?) than the others.

anyway, hope you got the job done

Well guys, Friday's windscreen appointment was interesting and even educational... I learnt summat I didn't know! First of all, the guy who came was a classic car nut, which was great! When he saw the car he was very curious- never seen anything like it, windscreen-wise, for years. Apparently, these screens which we refer to as bonded in our cars aren't actually called bonded in the trade. Bonded, at least in the last twenty years or so, is a screen which has a black band around it's edge to which the bonding stuff is, er, bonded. It is never just bonded to the bare glass. And when you remove the chrome/black trims from a 'bonded' HPE screen you don't find a black edge, only bare glass. When you dig around in all the mastic-type stuff that is holding the screen in you find a metal wire running through it. I discovered this before he arrived as I removed the trim with the intention of getting all the mastic out from around the glass edge to inspect for rust holes in the windscreen aperture; of which I'm pleased to say there was absolutely none. When I was slicing through the black mastic I found this bare wire and I did wonder what on earth it was doing there... Apparently, back in t' day when bonded screens was a newish idea the adhesive/black mastic/sealant type stuff that fixed the screen in was cured by connecting an electric current to said wire which would (presumably) heat up and effect the curing process. Nope, I didn't know that either.
Anyway, the end result is that NO screens are fitted using that technique any longer so ideally I think he would've loved to fit one in a nice old fashioned rubber. Personally, I don't like screens in a rubber- a bonded screen is much neater. On his van he had a screen the same size as mine but in green and without a black edge. He told me that the adhesive that all modern screens are held in with absolutely has to be used on screens with a black edge as it simply doesn't work correctly on bare glass- the chemical reaction isn't quite right and the fix would be weak... Of course, all the old-stock screens for our cars won't have a black edge because they are designed to be fitted using the aforementioned wire technique with a different type of adhesive which is, apparently, no longer available... Good fun this, innit...?

So- IF they ever manage to find a bronze tinted screen (which they think probably is unique to my car as it doesn't exist on any records for the HPE) they will then have to apply a black edge to it before they can fit it. I don't think that's a problem though, I just hope it's covered by the metal trim when it's fitted.

Last word on the subject at the moment is they were going to get in touch with Lancia in Italy to ask about availability... which of course will be a complete waste of everyone's time... if they can't get one then I'll have to have one made... thank God for comprehensive insurance eh...??

Andrew.

I know you said that you like the neatness of the bonded screen but if a rubber surround will fit I think I'd take that option so long as the ins co will cough up (the seal will be pricey) much more practical should the screen ever be broken again. As I said before I rather suspect you have a late spec screen from January 1984 onwards, is it definitely genuine lancia? I figure that it is if it has the wire in the sealant. 

Andrew,
the Hot bond system was used a lot by Lancia in the 70's/80's
current was applied to the seal to soften/melt it, the screen
then became part of the structure.

Replacing a screen today the fitter will paint the edge of the screen
and the surround with a curing solution so that the modern type of
mastic/sealant will seal/stick to the screen.

Some fitters will still have the hotbond but it will be a nos kit and
can be expensive, that's if they still have the transformer/power pack
to attach to it.

I've had a couple of screens replaced on Beta's and Gamma's and I've
certainly not had to order a special screen.  
However my last screen was ordered from Lancia in Italy but was made
by Pilkington in the UK sent to Italy and then returned to the UK to be
installed. You really don't want to know how much it cost.

Geoff

Which number is the date code? I was hoping it would look obvious to me, but it doesn't... ???


I'm fairly certain that's correct.


That's mine and the fitter's conclusion too.

 

Well, let's hope it doesn't come to that. It's purely the tint that's the problem- there's no record of UK HPE Volumex cars having bronze tints.


I do, I do!!

Andrew.

Ok, well you asked,   £ 740.

£740 ................. Christ on a Bike, thats expensive!!

usually a single number with a few dots on either left or right of it

Nothing like that...

Saint Gobain
3 SUPER VIS * C E
DGM 36828 VSP
DOT-37 M25 AS1
BS 857
FLWHP B
43R-00080
E-00114

What I have just noticed is the front screen is Saint Gobain but all the other glass is Sicursiv climaglass... is that normal?

Anyway, the current state of play is I'm having one made via oldschoolwindscreens.co.uk with the correct bronze tint but unfortunately no top tint  >:( :( which is a shame as it seemed to be quite unique...

Andrew.

vx coupé

windscreen
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/vxscreen.jpg?t=1302558802)

and side glass
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/vxsidewindow.jpg?t=1302558802)

I believe the 2 indicates manufacturing year (1982) although I think that makes the glass quite a bit older than the first VX Coupé yours seems to indicate 1983 (???) AS1 indicates 75% minimum light transmission (legal requirement for windscreen) and AS2 70% minimum light transmission (legal requirement for front side window) the rest I don't know

Insurance companies can be soooo slyyyy...
My insurance company's glass supplier is AA autowindshields. They told me they'd contacted oldschoolwindscreens as I'd suggested and they were getting me a screen made, in the correct bronze but unfortunately with no top tint because that wasn't possible. Well, I smelled a rat... I contacted oldschoolwindscreens myself to confirm that the order had actually been placed and that it was indeed bronze. Yes. I asked why the top tint wasn't available. It is, was the reply. So I'm now getting a bronze screen with a green top tint which is extremely close to my original screen. I'm sure you can all figure out why I was told it wasn't available with a top tint... penny pinching ba$tards.

Downside is it will take around 3 weeks...

Andrew.

Well... It's now well over two months into this saga and I am still screenless... :'(

The screen that was being specially made for my car finally arrived last week and... didn't fit. When it touched the aperture in the middle it was sticking out at the lower corners by nearly an inch. Obviously the jig they had used was incorrect. So I decided to try a green screen that they had in stock but that was just the same. They were both made by Triplex. Apparently regarded in the trade as the best but they just don't fit. It's definitely the correct screen, just not formed properly. I was even beginning to question the shape of the aperture in my car but it is totally original there- never been repaired. The original screen fits perfectly without any gaps anywhere.

So- has anyone had a bonded screen recently fitted to a HPE/coupe? If it fits correctly, what make is it?

Also, does anyone have a new screen lurking in their garage by any chance? Or know where there is one? Or failing that, a near perfect s/h one?

Nice sunny days and I can't drive my VX  >:( :'(

Andrew.

I fit a brand new bonded screen in my red coupe. It was an original Lancia screen that I found for sale about 3 years earlier.

I will have a look at the make at the weekend and let you know.

Oh and it fit perfectly first time, so definately sounds like their jig is out.

Hi all,

Old thread alert!! Ha ha. I'm going to update this story over the next few days because, believe it or not, my car is still screenless!!!!!!!! I kid you not...

Anyway, more on that later. For now, I have a query: Will someone tell me black/white yes/no- Do the Beta Coupe, Spyder and HPE share the same screen? I'm purely talking dimensions here, not tints. For what it's worth, I think they do... but I'm perfectly willing to be corrected... let me know!

Andrew.

VX and IE coupes had screens with rubber seals, Smaller dimensions to the bonded in screen used in earlier coupes, all spider and all HPE.

Over a year???!!! Jeez!

Dear Mark, reading your recent post regarding fitment of screens to coupes and HPEs, can you confirm weather an 85 registered HPE screen I have spare will fit another members COUPE. ("Badnews" has expressed an interest for his coupe restoration project, an I want to give him the correct info). 
Thank you.
Chas.
(VXdeMAYO) :)

Hi Chas
It will fit , it will need to be bonded in place.

Mark

Exactly as I thought. Cheers Mark.

As I said, I will update this thread with the (hopefully) good outcome soon. But I will say now that if anyone here requires a screen for a coupe, hpe or spider all you will get in the UK is one made by Pilkington Triplex. There are around half a dozen on the shelves right now at the windscreen supplier depots for national supply to the various screen fitting companies we all use.

And none of them will fit your car.
 
Andrew.

Dear Spud,
just a thought, I believe you live in Cumbria, and we are coming up to Langdale next week for a holiday. We have bought Paul Greenways silver Beta HPE VX six months ago, (the one pictured in this thread), and now have this screen spare. This is from an "A" reg HPE, and WAS BONDED via the electrical wire method. (I know cos I saw it come out!)
It's not perfect, as along the bottom edge it did have a small area of cloudy glass but that is within the 1" black surround that you mention (so should not be a problem), but it's here and we could possibly bring it up??
The markings are:
SECURIT
SAINT.GOBAIN
//DOT-37  19 AS1
E6  43R-00080
     1       H
It does have a green tint to the top as shown in the picture, and is free of dings or scratches.
Any help?
Chas and Anne,
(VXdeMAYO), :)

Well guys, the final hurdle has been jumped. The end to this endless saga of frustration is finally here. My car has a screen in it...
I’ve just read back through this entire thread to remind myself of the whole story. How did it take this long...? Well, I suppose it didn’t really... I’ll explain.
Last April (2011) I informed my insurance company that my car needed a new screen. ‘No problem’, came the reply. A blatant lie! Ha ha.
‘Your car has a green screen in a rubber, sir, and we can have that fitted tomorrow for you.’
‘Er, no, it has a bronze screen and it’s bonded in,’ said I.
This went on for some time... Eventually the chap on the phone said he would send a fitter out to have a look at it and bring with him a green screen to be fitted in a rubber because, obviously, I was entirely wrong and I didn’t know what a rubber looked like...
The fitter duly arrived and said, ‘that’s bronze, I’ve got a green one on the van. And I was told to fit it using your rubber ‘cos we can’t get one but I see yours is bonded in...’ I tried not to laugh, honestly I did. Anyway, he went on his way and the insurance company phoned me to say my screen didn’t exist on any records and that I’d have to have a green one in a rubber. I stamped my feet a few times and said I wasn’t happy with that and that I’d make my own enquiries and get back to them. I discovered ‘old school windscreens’ would be happy to have a bronze, bonded one made for me. I put my insurance company in touch with them and left them to it. Many weeks later it was finally ready and... didn’t fit. Seriously, it was miles out. Sitting in the aperture, dry fitted, it touched in the middle but stuck out at the corners by over an inch either side. Obviously the jig used in it’s construction was wrong. The fitter phoned old school windscreens and the guy said ‘yeah, that’s quite common on old cars... you just get a hammer and you give the middle of the aperture a good tw@tting to make it go down enough for the corners to fit. We do it all the time here...’ Whaaaaaaattttt? Sorry Mr. Fitter man, that ain’t happening here pal. I can understand that being needed occasionally on a 1920’s car but the Beta was constructed by robots- the aperture is fine- the screen is wrong! The fitter totally agreed and went on his merry way with the new screen and my old one which was broken when he removed it. The insurance company rang again and told me obviously my car had been damaged and the aperture was mis-shapen. I told them to speak to the fitter again. The fitter confirmed that the aperture was in perfect, as-new condition and that the car was virtually immaculate, the original screen was a perfect fit and clearly, in his opinion, the new screen had been formed on an incorrect jig. At this point I rang round a few suppliers and established that there was 6 bonded screens in the UK. All green. All made by Pilkington Triplex. Having totally given up on a bronze one by now I contacted my insurance company again and said ‘just bring them all, maybe one will be from a good batch.’ So they brought three. And not one of them was even close. However the fitter who came with them decided to try and fit one of them. He bonded it in and stuck it round the edges with loads of tape to hold it until the adhesive had set... it didn’t work. It kept lifting at the corners. When he came back to check it a couple of hours later it had popped right out on both sides. So he removed it. Then the insurance company decided to enlist the help of a Carlisle based fitter who is self employed and works on his own, as by now word of the job had spread and none of the fitters would touch it! He turned up with yet another screen and this one was slightly better than the others had been. It still stuck up at the edges but only by around ¾ inch each side... so he fitted it. It seemed fine and held tight- when he came back two hours later it was still in there so we called it a success and off he went. This was July 2011. My car remained in my garage (I’m retrimming the interior) until March this year when I drove it out to check it for leaks before refitting the dashboard. Hosepipe on... and you’ve guessed it... drip, drip, drip...
I phoned the fitter chap directly to explain and he said he was sorry but he didn’t work for that insurance company any longer and therefore he wouldn’t come and fix it. I phoned the insurance company to explain and, after three days of trying to figure out/remember who they had employed to fit it they said they would try to persuade him to fix the leak. Sure enough he turned up a week or so later, muttered something about hating that particular insurance company and that he was doing this job as a favour to me as he felt bad about it leaking, found the leak and blamed it on a rusty aperture. I reminded him that there wasn’t any rust and that couldn’t be the reason for the leak. (I’ll forgive him for that, as it had been 8 months since he’d fitted it... but the audacity of some people, suggesting Lancias rust... I don’t know...!!) Anyway, upon removing the screen the reason for the leak became clear- the inner plastic trim is held on by tiny metal clips, one of these had prevented the sealant from flowing fully into the aperture and had left the tiniest of gaps for the water to find it’s way through. The downside was he’d cracked the screen removing it... you couldn’t make this saga up, could ya...?
So, yet again he ordered a new screen and he brought it round to fit it. It was chipped! Aaaaarrrrrggggghh!! He took it away and returned a few weeks later (it wasn’t top of the list of priorities...) with another screen. This one was fine. He dry fitted it and it was the best fit yet. Still not right, still sticking out at the lower corners by maybe ½ inch either side but close enough to attempt to fit. So he did. He used a new inner trim, a softer rubber type from a F**d Tr&^$!t (we apologised to the Italian car gods). We clamped the corners whilst the adhesive went off.  
And it’s in there.
Perfect.
And it doesn’t leak.
Job Done.
Over and out.

Andrew.

P.S.1. As I said earlier in the thread there are 5 remaining screens left in the UK now and I've tried them all. They are all varying degrees of a bad fit... some of them being so far out it is ridiculous. The one fitted in my car was the best fit of them all but still had to be 'persuaded'. Will it crack...? I hope not. It is blatantly obvious that the jig in use at Pilkington Triplex is waaaay out of shape but they refused to try to alter it, saying it was a massive job to change it and there was absolutely no way it was going to be done. So look after your screens guys...

P.S.2. The post immediately before this one was replied to at the time by PM. I just didn't want anyone thinking I'd ignored/missed Chas and Anne's kind offer... :)  

Hi Spud

First, glad you are finally sorted out, not a saga I would have relished or probably had the patience to go along with.

So just to clarify, did you settle for the green tint screen or was it an actual bronze one in the end?

BTW, glad I managed to get a good old used one from a scrapper given your experience....

Peter

Hi Peter,

It's a green one with a dark green toptint. A bronze one for bonding doesn't exist which is why I tried having one made. And as you read ^ it was a waste of time. Why my car ever had a bronze screen is a mystery that will never be solved... I've replaced the body glass with green items now so it all matches up anyway.
I'm glad you managed to get a good used screen! It was what I was going to do if this hadn't finally worked out, and given that the screen in my car is under a little stress I may well yet still be looking for a good s/h one after the first time I hit a pothole... :'(

Andrew.

Hi Andrew

I did wonder what the longer term issues might be given that windscreen glass is not designed to be 'bent' and the an eventual fracture was my conclusion. Hopefully it will last a reasonable amount of time!

Peter

Dear Andrew,
I am so glad that you "can see your way clear" through this brain numbing saga. I will now hold onto my old spare screen for now (slight misting at the corners or not), given your bad experience.

There is a slight ironic twist to this windscreen saga: ---------- MY middle name is Pilkington! Long story, not for now!

PS: Seeing you have demonstrated loads of determined tenacity,  how would you feel about dealing with my frozen nipples on my brake calipers?
I have cleaned the calipers throughly, soaked them in penetrating oil for days, repeated when dry and so on. I have applied heat from a butane gaz torch for 5 minutes or more on three occasions to enable the differing rates of expansion to kick in (steel verse alloy etc), to no avail
Of the four only ONE has budged! I have not yet snapped any off but it could happen soon.
Suggestions on a postcard please.
Well done,
Chas and Anne. :)

I was told years ago not to apply heat but to freeze them... my local engineer has freed a few over the years for me and I'm sure that's what he does. Anyone else got an opinion?

Alternatively, sod the nipples and use these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M10-x-1-25-banjo-bolt-with-bleed-screw-nipple-/160724310059?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item256bea582b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M10-x-1-25-banjo-bolt-with-bleed-screw-nipple-/160724310059?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item256bea582b)

Work perfectly. My car has six.

Andrew.

Hi Andrew

Now that looks like a sensible solution, I assume you have to be careful to orientate the caliper so the air from the piston vents as well?

Peter

Peter

These bleed screws in the bolts are high enough to work perfectly and were made for motorbikes which also have bleed screws seize in place. They are a great solution for Beta owners.

Eric

Mark W sells these and I have used a set but not on a Beta but pretty much identical brake calipers, they work brilliantly !